Why Jesus – Not God – Died For Our Sins
The Bible says God cannot die. Yet Trinitarians assert that Jesus must be God himself in order to die for the sins of mankind stands in stark contradiction to all scriptural evidence. It was Jesus, not God, that died.
“LORD [Yahweh], are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, you will never die” (Habakkuk 1:12 NIV)
From this scripture, we can see that it is impossible that Jesus could be the God who would die for the sins of mankind, since the prophecy of Habakkuk was written over 600 years prior to Jesus and clearly states that God will never die.
“For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. ” (1 Peter 1:18,19 NIV)
Again, contrary to the Trinitarian assertion that without Jesus being God, then his blood is “ordinary” and could not atone for the sins of but one person, we see clearly stated that Jesus’ blood is precious. Why? Because he is the only one who died as a human without ever committing a sin, not because he is God. the Bible says that Jesus was “fully human in every way” (Hebrews 2:17 NIV).
“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.” (Romans 5:12 NIV)
Using Trinitarian logic that Jesus has to be God to take away the sins of all mankind, then Adam would have to be God, since his one sin caused sin to spread to all mankind. But just like Adam is not God – Jesus is not God.
“For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.” (Romans 5:19 NIV)
We see here how Jesus the “one man” counterbalances what the “one man” Adam lost by making many righteous, rather than sinful.
“See my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.” (Isaiah 52:13; 53:5 NIV)
In this last servant song in Isaiah, God’s servant, Jesus, is foretold to die for our sins, in this most messianic of all chapters in the OT. Obviously, God’s servant cannot be God.
“But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” (Mark 2:10 NIV)
“‘But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.’ So he said to the paralyzed man, ‘I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.'” (Luke 5:24 NIV)
“‘But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.’ So he said to the paralyzed man, ‘Get up, take your mat and go home.’ Then the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.” (Matthew 9:6-8 NIV)
In all three synoptic Gospel accounts, Jesus states the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins. Did Jesus have this authority inherent in himself, because he is God? Absolutely not! In Matthew 9:8, “they praised God for sending a man with such great authority” (NLT 2013) Obviously, God doesn’t need to give himself such authority.
“To the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace.” (Ephesians 1:6,7 NIV)
This shows that God made forgiveness possible through the blood of his Son for the forgiveness of sins.
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people” (1 Timothy 2:5,6 NIV)
This clearly shows that Christ Jesus, the mediator between God and mankind, who therefore cannot be God, gave himself a ransom for all people.
“For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.” (1 Peter 1:18 NIV)
This clearly states that Christ, not God, suffered for our sins, so he could bring us to God.
“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ . . . But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” (1 John 1:3,7 NIV)
We clearly see here that the Father is distinct and separate from his Son, Jesus Christ, and it is the blood of Jesus that purifies us from all sin. Since God is, and always has been, Spirit, therefore, he could never have blood.
“The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven” (Hebrews 1:3 NIV)
Powerful proof here is given that Jesus made purification for our sins and sat down at the right hand of God in heaven. Therefore, Jesus and God are two different, separate and distinct individuals.
“Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself” (Hebrews 7:27 NIV)
Jesus, in his role as high priest, sacrificed himself for sins – not God. Priests represent people before God. Therefore, Jesus is not God.
“My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:1,2 NIV)
We see here that Jesus, our advocate, is with the Father, but obviously is not the Father. Jesus, not the Father, is the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
“And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen” Revelation 1:6,7 NIV)
Jesus, not God, freed us from our sins by his blood, thereby making it possible for us to serve his God and Father, which means it is impossible for Jesus to be God. How did Jesus ‘free us from our sins by his blood? He “died” (1 Corinthians 15:3). Revelation 1:5,6 makes it clear that Jesus’ “Father” is “his God”. Since “God . . . will never die” (Habakkuk 1:12 NIV), we know that it is Jesus, not God, who died for our sins!
25 thoughts on “Why Jesus – Not God – Died For Our Sins”
It is very clear that you take the shema and the old testament idolatry warnings seriously by willing to become a pariah to most of trinitarian christendom
My question is why do you still take for granted the doctrine of original sin which perhaps even more so than trinitarianism is the absolute pillar of modern christianity.
There is no hope for trying to firmly prove a doctrine of original sin from the old testament just as it would be to try to prove trinitarianism from the old testament
Why do you think that any new testament passage can add/change/delete from the old testament…particularly since you already admit that jesus was not God?
The false Trinity doctrine, and the doctrine of original sin, are two entirely different matters. The Old Testament can only be correctly interpreted in the light of the New Testament, and not the other way around. “Adam was formed first, then Eve. Further, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed” (1 Timothy 2:13,14 NAB). “It was through one man that sin came into the world, and through sin death, and thus death has spread through the whole human race because everyone has sinned” (Rom 5:12 NJB). Thus, the New Testament completely confirms, and explains clearly, the Old Testament teaching of original sin.
I think you have needlessly tied yourself into knots, for there are so many plain evidences from Scripture attesting to Jesus’ Godhood as to render your objection unsupportable. Before I introduce some of them, though, let’s consider the idea that Jesus is not God but that he, as a mortal non-God man lived a sinless life and was wrongfully put to death. Put yourself in Jesus’ shoes. You’re a mortal, non-God man, right? If you were able to live a sinless life, and if you were wrongly killed, would your death save any soul besides your own? You would only have justified yourself, correct? That’s because no non-God mortal could give his life for the sins of every human being who’d ever live; only God in the flesh could do that. But there’s another issue: you could never live a sinless life, could you! That’s because no non-God mortal man would ever be capable of living a sinless life! Romans 3 says, “There is none righteous; no, not one.”
Now, look at John 1. In the beginning was the Word (Jesus). He was with God, and He *was* God. The Word became flesh and dwelled among men. Recall that God (“the LORD”, Yahweh) says in Isaiah 44 & 45 and in Hosea 13 that there is no God, and no Savior, besides Himself. So we cannot say that Jesus (the Word) was “another God” apart from Yahweh (or, if you prefer, Jehovah).
I compiled the following list using “Jehovah” for the name of God because it was prepared with JWs in mind, so just substitute “Yahweh” if you prefer.
Who is our Savior?
Jesus is our savior. Luke 2:11; Ephesians 5:23; Rom. 10:9-13
Jehovah is our savior. Hosea 13:4; 2 Tim. 1:8-9; Joel 2:32
Who is the Redeemer? (NWT uses “Repurchaser”)
Jesus- Gal. 3:13 (“purchased”); Rev. 5:9 (“bought”)
Jehovah- Isaiah 43:1,14; 44:6,22; Psalm 19:14;
Who is the Beginning and the End, First and Last, Alpha and Omega, Aleph and Tau?
Jehovah – Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Rev. 1:8
Jesus – Rev. 1:10-18; 22:12-16
Who baptizes with the Holy Spirit?
Jesus – John 1:33; Mark 1:8; Acts 1:5; Acts 2:15-17
Jehovah – Joel 2:27-29
Whom did they pierce?
Jesus – John 19:37
Jehovah – Zechariah 12:1-10 (but NWT says, “they will look to the one whom they pierced,” not “me”)
Who is unchanging?
Jehovah: Malachi 3:6
Jesus: Hebrews 13:8
Who is the good shepherd?
Jesus – John 10:11-16
Jehovah – Ezekiel 34:10-16
Who has power over life and death?
Jehovah – Gen. 2:7; Ezekiel 18:4
Jesus – John 10:17-18; John 6:40,44
Who is the Creator?
Jehovah – Genesis 1; Isaiah 64:8; Job 33:4; Job 26:13
Jesus – John 1:1-4
Whom do we worship?
Jehovah – Exodus 34:14; Rev. 22:8-9
Jesus – Hebrews 1:6; Matt. 2:11; 8:2; 9:18 (but NWT changes “worshipped” to “did obeisance”)
Who sent the angel of revelation to John?
Jehovah- Rev. 22:6
Jesus- Rev. 22:16
God and the Lamb sit on one throne: Rev. 22: 3-4; Rev. 7:15-17
Consider Psalm 88:1 – “O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee.” In Hebrew, the beginning part reads: “O YHWH Elohim Yeshua, I have cried…” Do you see it? Yahweh is Yeshua (Jesus) and is Elohim (the Hebrew generic for “God”, which is plural).
Regarding your assertion that only God could die for our sins, according to the scriptures, God cannot die:
“LORD [Yahweh], are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, you will never die”—Habakkuk 1:12 NIV
“God is not human” (Numbers 23:19 NIV), but Jesus was “fully human in every way” (Hebrews 2:17 NIV), yet “He committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22 NIV). We were “redeemed . . . by the precious blood of Christ” (1 Peter 1:18,19 NIV).
Jesus “became flesh” (John 1:14) and lots of people saw him, but “no one has ever seen God” (1 John 4:12 NIV), so Jesus can’t be Almighty God. While Jesus is called “God” in John 1:1, the NAB footnote explains: “lack of a definite article with ‘God’ in Greek signifies predication rather than identification.” Thus, “God’ is descriptive of “the Word” in John 1:1, but not an “identification.” Additionally, we’re told that Jesus is “the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father” (John 1:18 NASB). This is similar to Moses being “made . . . as God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1 NKJV; NASB).
Isaiah 44 & 45 & Hosea 13 contrast Yahweh with rival, false gods. Jesus is certainly not in that category. Jesus said that he and his Father are “two witnesses”, that is, two individuals (John 8:17,18 NIV).
I am glad that we can have a reasoned discussion without rancor.
You express the concern: God cannot die, but Jesus died, and therefore (you say) Jesus cannot be God.
God cannot die, it is true; yet this need not be a barrier to the deity of Christ. This is because Jesus was fully God and also fully man. Man can die, obviously. Here is how this works. Jesus is one Being with two natures. We call it the Hypostatic Union. Zondervan Academic describes it thusly:
“If you put an apple and an orange into a blender and mix them together, you can’t say that the end result is still “fully apple” and “fully orange.” It’s a new substance—a combination of the two. Jesus’ divine and human natures exist together in such a way that they are united in one person, but “unblended.” They each retain all of their qualities without interfering with the other.”
God the Son exists from everlasting, to everlasting. Just as He is capable of taking on the physicality of a burning bush, or a pillar of cloud (by day), or a pillar of fire (by night), He is also capable of taking on humanity to its fullest. He is omnipotent; nothing is too hard for God. Even before He created the world (and every creation was created by or through Him, John 1:3), the ability and the plan for being born of a virgin was within God.
God essentially is Spirit, but a God who can create a universe, and even time itself, can do whatever He wishes. Causing Mary to be supernaturally pregnant, essentially ‘fathering’ a human body for Himself so as to live among men, is child’s play to Him. God did this because He loves us (the humans He created), because we humans became utterly lost in sin due to the transgression of Adam, and because He chose to show His love for us by becoming totally relatable as a human being, by enduring the same temptations that we face (yet without sinning), and then by surrendering His *mortal life* (not His divine life or Being) on the cross. Remember: two natures, unblended and non-interfering, within one Person.
Humans can die.
God cannot die.
God+human is capable of laying down (giving) His *human* life and nature, without harm to His divine life and nature.
Do you see the difference? We cannot define Jesus as ‘merely God’ or as ‘merely man,’ because He walked the earth as both together. (In order to do this, He voluntarily held in abeyance some of His divine attributes while He lived on earth corporeally.)
Consider what death involves. First, there’s physical death, which all mortals experience. Then there’s “spiritual death” which is really not a cessation of existence but is a condition of being outside of God’s grace…unredeemed, and ‘dead to God but alive to sin’. (The converse is being dead to sin and alive to God, Romans 6:11). When anyone dies physically, the spirit remains in the state it was in at that time of physical death: either the person’s spirit is alive to God or dead to God, but it does not cease to exist.
Now consider the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. He had two natures, so He had a human spirit and He had the Spirit of God, unblended within Him. Then His body died; His human spirit and His divine Spirit departed the body, but they in no way ceased to exist. Thus, Jesus voluntarily surrendered His mortal life, while God in no way died. (No one could take His life from Him, but He laid down His life for us.)
Why is it important to believe that Jesus is God? Again, it is important because no mere mortal could possibly redeem anyone other than himself by dint of his own pure, sinless life (if such a life were even possible for a mere mortal). Only Almighty God could redeem us all (billions of humans) out of our iniquities, let alone do such a feat at one swoop.
Besides that, if (as you suppose) Jesus is not God, then He must be a created being; He is finite and had a beginning (about 2,000 years ago). That is not what Scripture says, though. John 1 says that not one single created thing was created without Jesus doing the creating. In Revelation, Jesus identifies Himself as “the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
In John 10, we read that Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.” The Jews knew that He was equating Himself with God, and so they tried to stone Him.
John 10:30-33 — “‘I and the Father are one.’ The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, ‘I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?’ The Jews answered him, ‘It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.’”
That was not the first time Jesus declared Himself to be God! Recall how God identified Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14– “I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” In John 8, we see Jesus tell the questioners, “if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (note: the word “he” is not present in the Greek text; it was mistakenly added to the English translation.) “Then said they unto him, Who art thou?” Jesus goes on to tell them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself…” Do you see? Jesus identified Himself as “I AM” and the people tried to stone Him for blaspheming (equating Himself with God). Jesus even told them that He pre-existed the patriarch Abraham. This same Jesus healed the sick, raised the dead, and forgave men their sins. No one can forgive sins but God! Thus, by all of His deeds and by His own words, Jesus identified Himself as God to all who would believe.
The Jews saw that Jesus declared Himself to be God. So should we.
Do you worship Jesus? Only God is worthy of worship. God forbids worshiping any other god…. let alone a mortal human!
Exodus 34:14 says “For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.”
But Jesus is worthy of worship (Heb. 1:6; Matt. 2:11; 8:2; 9:18).
Mat 2:10-11 says, “When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, *and worshipped* him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.”
Who do you worship? Think about it.
Neither Trinity, One Being with Dual Nature, Jesus is from everlasting, and Hypostatic Union are in the scriptures. Your “blended, unblended” illustration contradicts itself. Two things can’t be blended, and yet remain unblended, These ideas contradict the scriptures. They are “man-made ideas” that “cancel the word of God” (Mark 7:6,13 NLT).
Jesus was “made flesh” (John 1:14), “but God is spirit” (John 4:24). Jesus was “put to death in the spirit, but made alive in the flesh” (1 Peter 3:18). Claiming that “God became human” contradicts the scriptures. “God is not human” (Numbers 23:19).
Jesus admitted that he was “a man who has told you the truth I heard from God” (John 8:40 NIV). Obviously he was a man, not God. “God . . . sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins” (1 John 4:9,10 NIV). Obviously God did not die for our sins—Jesus did! Jesus said, “I was dead” (Revelation 1:18), that is, all of him, not just part of him. If any part of him remained alive, he could not have died for our sins.
The “I am” of Exodus 3:14-16 is “Yahweh . . . the God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob” (NJB). “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . . . has glorified his servant Jesus” (Acts 3:13 NIV). Since Jesus is Yahweh’s “servant”, he can’t be Yahweh.
Forging sins doesn’t make Jesus God. Jesus said “the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” (Mathew 9:4). “They praised God for sending a man with such great authority” (Matthew 9:8 NLT 2013).
People “knelt before” and “did homage to” Jesus (Matthew 2:11; 8:2; 9:18 NAB; NJB), but did not worship him.
Regarding Hebrews 1:6, “When he brings the First-born into the world, he says: Let all God’s angels pay him homage” (NJB). We, like angels, honor Jesus, but do not worship him.
We, at this website, as “true worshippers,” “worship the Father” (John 4:23), as Jesus told us to.
Jesus said that his “Father” is “the only true God,” who “sent” “Jesus Christ” (John 17:1,3).
Does Jesus have to be God to redeem us from our sins? No! “The blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin” (1 John 1:7 NIV).
Quoting that verse begs the question. Of course we know that the blood of Jesus, Son of God, purifies us from all sin. This is the blood Jesus shed while on the cross. But the verse does not answer the question: is the Son of God just a man, or is he God the Son (God+man), or what? It does not answer the question: can a mortal man, by living without sin and then dying, redeem all other human beings?
Let me say at the outset of this comment that none of us can ever have “perfect” theology. Nor does God require, in order to be saved, that we have perfect theology about every single point! We are all fallible human beings, so none of us get everything just right. That was why God the Father sent His Son to redeem us by grace through faith. All Christians who trust in Christ (not in their works) and who persevere until the end will be saved, and all such Christians can ‘agree to disagree’ on various points while remaining in fellowship.
Now, let’s suppose you’re right: Jesus was only human. Under that circumstance, the only difference between Jesus and any other human being is the method of insemination: supernatural versus natural. Other than the fact that Mary was made pregnant by divine intervention, making Jesus the only begotten son of God (all Christians are adopted as sons of God, but we are not natural-born sons of God), Jesus would still have been just a mortal man. Do you agree? (Or do you think Jesus was more than a man? Does being “begotten by God” make Jesus some sort of demigod, or a man with super-powers? If so, please elaborate.)
Continuing under the supposition that Jesus was only a mortal human, how could a mortal man heal every person who came to him for healing? (“…and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all,” Matt. 12:15). How could a mortal man command the wind and the waves to become calm? How could a mortal man walk on water? How could he bring people (like Lazarus who was dead for days) back to life if he were just a man?
Look at some of Jesus’ claims about himself:
John 10:17-18 “Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again…” Jesus claimed to have power over his own life and death. What mortal man can do that?
John 10:27-28 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish…” Jesus claims the ability to grant eternal life himself! What mortal can do that?
John 6:40 “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Jesus says, “I will raise” the faithful dead to eternal life. As a pre-ascended man, how could he be so bold?
John 15:26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father…” How could any mortal man say he had the power to send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, to all believers?
John 8:58 “…Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” How could a mortal man claim to pre-exist Abraham, a man who lived and died a couple thousand years previous?
You write elsewhere that that the Hypostatic Union, the unblended presence of two natures in one divine Person, is not found in scripture. True, the Bible does not explicitly give any explanation for how Jesus could be truly God and truly man. But the Bible does make clear that Jesus was more than a man.
Sane men don’t claim to have existed for thousands of years. A sane man don’t claim to hold the power over everyone’s eternal destiny, or the power over his own life (to lay it down and to take it up again). Sane men don’t accurately foretell their own manner of death and their own resurrection. Sane men don’t let people address them as “my God” (which Thomas did) without correcting them. Jesus did all of those things, and he proved his “bona fides” by rising from the dead… just as he foretold and promised!
Do you still say that Jesus was just a man? If so, can you explain how he could have lived before Abraham? Can you explain why he could call himself the great “I AM”, which the Jews immediately perceived as blasphemy (calling himself God)? Can you tell me how a mortal man did all of the amazing things Jesus did?
– – – – –
Was Jesus more than a man? Consider what Romans 1:18-21 says, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.” This passage speaks of God’s “eternal power and Godhead.” The Godhead is the completeness of God; it includes His omnipotence, His support of the universe’s existence, and His governance of all things.
Now read Colossians 2:8-9. “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
For the completeness of God to dwell in Jesus, as these scriptures proclaim, we are obliged to believe that God took a bodily form by being born of a virgin, and God lived among men (walking, talking, teaching, preaching, and healing). God then laid down His mortal (human) body, allowing it to be crucified in a horrible, ignominious death, to show us His great love for us. No one else could save us; God Himself personally redeemed us and made propitiation for us. “No greater love…”
“Can a mortal man by living without sin and then dying redeem all other people?”, you ask. Yes, he can, according to the scriptures:
“The man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people”—1 Timothy 2:5,6 NIV
Jesus’ sinless perfection (Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Peter 2:22) made him qualified to take “away the sins of the world” (John 1:29), as “the last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45). “One man’s good act has brought justification and life to all humanity” (Romans 5:18 NJB). Nothing in the scriptures says God died for our sins. “Christ died for our sins” (1 Corinthians 15:3), whereas “Yahweh . . . God . . . never dies” (Habakkuk 1:12 NJB).
Moses split the Red Sea and performed miracles. Elijah, Elisha, Peter and Paul performed many miracles, including healings and resurrections. But this doesn’t make them God. Likewise with Jesus.
Jesus said his “authority” to ‘take his life back’ was a “command” from his “Father” (John 10:17,18 NIV). Jesus said he do nothing by himself, but only what he sees the Father doing, including raising the dead (John 5:19-21). His power comes from God the Father.
“The helper, the spirit of the truth which I will send you from the Father, will come and testify about me” (John 15:26 21st Century NT). The Father gives Jesus the holy spirit to send.
“Godhead” is not an accurate translation. In fact, there is no such thing. “The invisible evidence of God and his everlasting power” (Romans 1:20 NJB), and “divinity” (Colossians 2:9 NJB) are accurate translations.
The Bible never says Jesus was “God and man”. Jesus had already denied being “God” (John 10:36), and had distinguished himself from “the only true God” (John 17:3). Psalm 45:6,7 calls the Israelite king “God”. The NAB footnote says: “O God: the king, in courtly language is called ‘god,’ i. e., more than human, representing God to the people. According to Hebrews 1:8, this was a prediction of the Messiah, Jesus, being called “God’, because he represented God to the people. According to the scriptures, Jesus has a “God”, his “Father” (John 20:17; Revelation 1:6). Thomas calling him “God” does not make him “the Lord God Almighty” (Revelation 21:22).
Jesus could pre-exist Abraham because he is “the firstborn of every creature”, “the Beginning of the creation of God” (Colossians 1:15 KJV; Revelation 3:14 NKJV). “Yahweh created [him], first-fruits of his fashioning, before the oldest of his works” (Proverbs 8:22 NJB).
Almighty God and Jesus Christ both have some of the same titles, but this does not prove that Jesus is Almighty God.
Humans are called “savior,” or “saviors” (Judges 3:9,15 NAB; Nehemiah 9:27 NAB; Obadiah 21 NKJV), but that doesn’t make them God.
Regarding “Redeemer”, it is said of Jesus, “with your blood you purchased for God persons . . . ” (Revelation 5:9 NIV). Notice that Jesus purchased people “for God” “with [his] blood”, which means that he is not God, and that he died, which is something that God cannot do (Habakkuk 1:12).
In Revelation, Jesus says that he “was dead” (Revelation 1:18), which is something that cannot happen to God (Habakkuk 1:12).
“One of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ [not God] side” (John 19:37). John accurately quotes Zechariah 12:10 as, “they will look on the one they have pierced” (John 19:37 NIV). It is obvious the prophecy refers to Christ: “They will look on him whom they have thrust through, they mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and they will grieve for him as one grieves over a first-born” (Zechariah 12:10 NAB).
The truth about Almighty God, and Jesus Christ doesn’t change, but this doesn’t make Jesus God. “Jesus Christ is yesterday, today, and forever. So do not be attracted to strange, new ideas” (Hebrews 13:9 NLT).
Jesus is called “the good shepherd” and the “Chief shepherd,” (John 10:14; 1 Peter 5:4 NIV), but that doesn’t make him Almighty God. Proving that he’s not God is Matthew 26:31, “God will strike the Shepherd” (NLT).
Since Jesus “died” and God cannot die (! Corinthians 15:3; Habakkuk 1:12), and “God resurrected this Jesus” (Acts 2:32 HCSB), Jesus does not have the ultimate control over death. God does.
“God created everything through” Jesus, so Jesus cannot be God (John 1:3 NLT).
Jesus said “the true worshippers will worship the Father” (John 4:23), not himself. “They did him homage” (Matthew 2:11 NAB), but not worship. “A man . . . knelt before him”, and “a synagogue leader . . . knelt before him” (Matthew 8:2 NIV; 9:18 NIV), “Let all God’s angels pay him homage” (Hebrews 1:6 NJB), not worship.
Both God and Jesus send angels. Jesus “became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs” (Hebrews 1:4 NIV). Who did Jesus inherit his name from?—God the Father, not himself.
“The Lamb” is pictured as being on the throne with “God” (Revelation 7:15-17; 22:3), however, “the Lamb” is also shown to be someone other than “the Lord God Almighty” (Revelation 21:22).
Jesus, Yeshua, means “Yahweh is Salvation”, but that doesn’t make him God Almighty.
Elohim can mean plural, but it can also mean majestic. “Dagon” was viewed as a singular God, like Yahweh (Deuteronomy 6:4), but he is called “Elohim” (1 Samuel 5:7).
You appear to be dancing from one translation to another, cherry-picking the version that best matches your position. This is not sound scholarship.
For example: you chose a version that says ‘they did him homage’ rather than allow for the word ‘worship.’ Yet a great many Bible versions use the word ‘worship’ in translating Matt. 2:11, including the BBE, the CEV, the ESV, the EMTV, the Geneva, the KJV, the TLB, the LEV, etc, etc.
Am I to assume from this that you do not worship Jesus? How unusual. Would the phrase, “Praise Jesus!” never pass your lips?
I am curious to know what sort of church you belong to. What denomination goes to such great lengths to absolutely exclude any possibility of Christ’s deity and of the Holy Trinity (three Persons, one God)?
The word translated “worship” in Matt. 2 is προσκυνέω , proskuneō. It is the same word Jesus used in Matt. 4:10 and in John 4:24.
“…it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
I think your insistence on using ‘homage’ rather than ‘worship’ is a distinction without a difference.
BibleAuthenticity says: (September 9, 2023 at 1:17 PM)
The Bible never says Jesus was “God and man”. Jesus had already denied being “God” (John 10:36), and had distinguished himself from “the only true God” (John 17:3).
I understand how and why you arrive at that interpretation. Others arrive at a different interpretatation, based perhaps on reading more of the context surrounding the indicated statements of Jesus.
John 10:27-35 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (and now here is verse 36, which you mentioned)–
John 10:36 “Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?”
John 10:37-39 “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand”
Taken in isolation, it may appear that Jesus was ‘only’ referring to himself in a lesser manner than ‘God’ when he said ‘Son of God.’ But this is in the context of a broader conversation, in which Jesus stated that he and the Father are one, that he had the power to grant eternal life, and that “the Father is in me, and I in him,” which denotes unity of being. It is quite conceivable (although marvelous) for God to live within a man (as He does in each of us), but it is quite another matter for Jesus to say that he is in the Father. And the Jews, who were right there listening, understood Jesus to be declaring himself God; that’s why they tried to grab him and stone him.
In verses 35 and 36, Jesus was ‘giving them a hard time.’ He was in effect saying, You charge me with blasphemy. The foundation of that charge is the use of the name, the Son of God, applied to myself; yet that same term is applied in the Scriptures to magistrates. The use of it there shows that it is right to apply it to those who sustain important offices. Theefore, you should not try to base a charge of blasphemy on the application of a word to the Messiah which in your own Scriptures is applied to all magistrates.
But note what Jesus did not say. He did not deny that the term ‘Son of God’ implied that he was God. He affirmed only that they were inconsistent, and were not authorized to bring a charge of blasphemy for the application of the name to himself. However, just a bit later on, Jesus said, “the Father is in me, and I in him,” and the Jews again recognized the statement as blasphemy for anyone other than God to say.
You also state that Jesus had distinguished himself from “the only true God” (John 17:3). Let’s see the verse in context:
John 17:1-5 “These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Although Jesus speaks of himself as a separate person from the Father, the context of this passage shows that Jesus also pre-existed the creation of the universe. The concept of ‘separate Persons in one Being’ is consistent with Trinitarianism.
John 17:5 is one of several scripture passages that indicate Jesus preexisted the Creation. Here’s another:
John 1:1-3 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
This passage tells us that not a single created thing was made without the creative activity of Jesus. If Jesus were a created being, then at least one created thing would have been made without Jesus’ creative activity; this contradicts verse 3, doesn’t it?
We see this fact bolstered by Ch. 1 of Colossians.
Col 1:13-17 “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
Jesus “is before all things”: He existed before the Creation.
Jesus created all things: “all things were created by him, and for him.”
Jesus upholds that which he created: “by him all things consist.”
If Jesus is not God, then a mortal man (not God) created the entire universe, including every variety of plant and every variety of animal, right down to the intricate eyeballs of humankind. If Jesus is not God, a mortal man created the “principalities” and “powers,” and even the angels in heaven.
Will you please explain how Jesus could pre-exist all of Creation and be the one who performed all of the creating, yet still be just a mortal man and not God? I thank you in advance for your time and attentiveness.
It is an unscriptural Trinitarian equivocation to assert that “the Son of God” = “God”. Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28 NKJV). Just before saying “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), Jesus said, “My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all” (John 10:29 NIV), so there is no way that he meant he and his Father are equal. In its note on John 10:30, the Ryrie Study Bible says, “The Father and the Son are in perfect unity in their natures and actions, and the neuter form of the verb rules out the meaning that they are one person.” John 10:30 can be accurately translated as “I and the Father are one accord” (Lamsa). Jesus, in effect, debunked Trinitarian ideas when prayed that he and his disciples would be “one”, just as he and his Father are “one” (John 17:11,20-23). Jesus statements about he and his Father being “in” each other can be accurately translated as , “the Father is in union with me, and I am in union with the Father” (John 10:38 AAT). Jesus taught us to pray to, “Our Father in heaven” (Matthew 6:9), and referred to “the Father who sent me” (John 6:44), and said, “In have not yet ascended to my Father” (John 20:17). The scriptures are very clear that the “two” (John 8:17,18) of them are not literally, spatially together in one being, as Trinitarians claim.
The scriptures make clear that Jesus pre-existed the universe. Jesus is “the firstborn of every creature”, “the beginning of the creation of God” (Colossians 1:15 KJV; Revelation 3:14 NKJV). Jesus was the very first of all God’s creations. He is a creature. Only “the Lord God Almighty” is said to have “created all things” (Revelation 4:8,11). Only he is called “Creator” (Matthew 19:4). Jesus is said to be “the image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15), but not “the Lord God Almighty” (Revelation 21:22). However, “God created all things through him [Jesus], and nothing was created except through him” (John 1:3 NLT). While he was in heaven, he was a spirit, the Son of God, who was “with God” at “the beginning” of the universe (John 1:1,2). He “became human” (John 1:14 NLT) when “God . . . sent” him to earth ((1 John 4:9).
Which church denomination do you recommend, a denomination which teaches the doctrine of Jesus in the way that you teach it?
The point is actually, “What do the scriptures teach about Jesus?”—Matthew 2:6 tells us that Micah 5:2 applies to Jesus. Micah 5:2 tells us that Jesus had an origin, a beginning, to his life, whereas God has always been “eternal” (Psalm 90:2; 1 Timothy 1:17). “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God” (John 20:31). “A great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God” (Hebrews 4:14). “He is the Mediator of the new covenant” (Hebrews 9:15 NKJV). “The one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5 NKJV). “Christ died for our sins” (1 Corinthians 15:3). “God . . . never dies” (Habakkuk 1:12 NIV). “God has resurrected this Jesus” (Acts 2:32 HCSB).Jesus is “the Lamb of God, who takes away our sins” (John 1:29). “The Lamb” is not “the Lord God Almighty” (Revelation 21:22). This is what the Bible teaches.
The Bible speaks of Christians (Acts 11:26). The Bible speaks against divisions, such as denominations (1 Corinthians 1:10-13) .The scriptures indicate that the “wheat” and the “weeds” will “grow together until the harvest” (Matthew 13:24-30).
We recommend each person do the best they can to follow the scriptures, and ‘gather together’ (Hebrews 10:23-25).
Well, I asked what denomination you recommend, and you answered, “The point is actually, “What do the scriptures teach about Jesus?”…We recommend each person do the best they can to follow the scriptures, and ‘gather together.’”
So I guess I’ll have to just keep ‘gathering together’ at my usual Trinitarian church.
After all, let’s look at the Arian (Jesus is not God) church options:
The Jehovah’s Witnesses have some huge doctrinal problems, as you well know.
The LDS started out with Joseph Smith saying that God told him all other churches were abominations and were leading everyone to hell, but now they’ve gone the opposite way and teach that almost everyone will have eternal life (they even believe in ‘second chances’ after death).
The Unitarian Universalists are an “any doctrine is fine with us” group; they have such loose doctrinal standards, anyone can and does believe whatever he wishes about salvation and God.
The Hebrew Roots followers re-institute obedience to the Jewish legalisms as necessary prerequisites to salvation.
Those are the Arian churches, and they’re totally messed up in their teachings about the way to eternal life. What does it say about Arian belief when the only churches who hold that belief are so heretical?
I’ll make one last point, and then I think I’m done commenting. Here’s the thing: Trinitarians trust in God for eternal life, but you trust in a created being for eternal life.
If Jesus is a created being, then all the times when he says “believe in me” instead of “believe in God,” Jesus is taking away from God’s glory and is elevating himself (a creation).
“I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst” (John 6:35). How dare a created being call himself “the bread of life” when only God can be the provider and giver of eternal life? How dare a created, angelic being tell us to place our faith and trust in him, when he should have told us to trust only in God!
How dare a created being call himself “Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,” and “the beginning and the ending” (Rev. 1:10-18; 22:12-16)? Shouldn’t those descriptors be reserved to Yahweh?
Isa 44:6 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”
Rev 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
Rev. 1:17,18 “I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore..”
Rev 22:12-13,16 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last… I, Jesus…”
It seems to me that Jesus was calling Himself God, right there in Revelation. I raised that issue before, but you never addressed it. Maybe there’s a reason why? 😉
May the Spirit of God be your guide and helper as you consider these things.
There are some non-denominational groups that do not believe in the Trinity doctrine, and also some other denominations, such as various Bible Student groups, some Church of God groups, Christadelphians, Iglesia Ni Christo, Armstrongism, etc.
We are not aware of any group or denomination that has “perfect Theology,” you put it. The “Son of Man,” Jesus Christ, has “eyes like a flame of fire,” and “walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands”–“churches” (Revelation 1:12-2:1 NKJV). “He is the head of the body, the church” (Colossians 1:18), and knows exactly what is going on (Revelation 2 & 3). The “seven churches” picture the church through the ages up until now.
If we knew of a perfect church or denomination, we would recommend it. But we don’t, so we recommend that each person be a “Christian” (Acts 11:26), and do their best to affiliate with a Bible-believing and practicing church, that conforms as closely to the scriptures as they can find.
Trinitarians ignore the fact that God is the one who told everyone to “listen to” his “Son”, Jesus Christ” (Matthew 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:35). “God presented Christ as an atonement” (Romans 3:25 NIV), therefore he can’t be God. “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me [Moses] from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people” (Acts 3:22,23 NIV). Jesus is a prophet, not God.
Yes, Jesus is “the bread of life.” Why? Notice scriptures that Trinitarians ignore. Jesus said, “On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval (John 6:27 NIV), and “it is my Father who gives you true bread from heaven” (John 6:33 NIV), and “no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them . . . It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me” (John 6:44,45 NIV). The Father, God, sent Jesus.
Jesus does not call himself, not does the Bible call him, “the Alpha and the Omega.” Revelation 1:8 is spoken by the “the Lord God,” the Almighty.” “The Alpha and the Omega” has “sons”, but no brothers (Revelation 21:6,7). Jesus has “brothers” (Matthew 25:40; Hebrews 2:11), but no sons. Therefore Jesus cannot be “the Alpha and the Omega.” The speakers in Revelation [John, various angels, God, Jesus (22:16), “the spirit and the bride” (22:17), etc.] change frequently. God, not Jesus, speaks in Revelation 22:13. The marginal notes in the NKJV admit that “the Beginning and the End” in Rev 1:8, and “the Alpha and the Omega” in Rev 1:11, do not appear in the most accurate Greek texts. The title shared by Yahweh and Jesus, “the first and the last” (Isaiah 44:6; Revelation 1:17) does not make Jesus into God. Likewise, Jesus shares the title “king of kings” (Revelation 17:14; 19:16) with God (1 Timothy 6:15,16), and Artaxerxes and Nebuchadnezzar (Ezra 7:12; Daniel 2:37), but that doesn’t make Jesus, Artaxerxes, or Nebuchadnezzar, into God. In Revelation, Jesus says he was “dead” (Rev 1:18). God can’t die (Habakkuk 1:12). Jesus is the “Lamb” who “had been slain”, who has to get the scroll of Revelation from God, “who sat on the throne” (Revelation 5:6,7). God “gave him” the “revelation” (Revelation 1:1). If Jesus was God, God wouldn’t have to give him the Revelation.
The scriptures, including Jesus, make clear that we are to “worship God” (Revelation 19:10; 22:9), and “the true worshippers will worship the Father” (John 4:23), not the Son, not Jesus. “Proskyneo” can be translated as “do homage to”, “kneel before”, “bow down to”, etc., or as “worship”, depending upon the context. We “Praise Jesus!”, but do not worship him.
When Revelation 3:9 is translated as: “I will make them come and worship before you” (NKJV), does that that mean people should “worship” Christians? When Matthew 18:26 is translated as: “the servant therefore fell down and worshipped him [the king]” (KJV), does that mean that people should worship earthly kings?
The New Testament was written in 1st century Koine’ Greek. Translating an ancient language into modern languages, such as English, is not an exact science. There is often more than one way to translate words and phrases. This is why we have different translations in modern languages, such as English. Jesus commanded that the gospel be preached to “all nations” (Matthew 28:19,20), and requires translations. Since the scriptures don’t prescribe any one particular translation, we are free to use various translations. We don’t “cherry-pick” translations to manipulate Bible truth. We “hold firmly to the word of life” (Philippians 2:16 NIV).
We are “Christians” (Acts 11:26), not denominationalists, and “praise God” that we “bear that name” (1 Peter 4:16 NIV).