CITY GATE DISCOVERED AT SHILOH
“When he mentioned the ark of the God, Eli fell backward off his chair by the side of the city gate.His neck was broken and he died, for he was an old man, and he was heavy. He had led Israel forty years”—1 Samuel 4:18 NIV
The remains of a city gate were discovered recently in Shiloh, Israel. This was the place where the Ark of the Covenant was kept during the time of the Judges. The remains of this city gate gate were discovered by the Associates for Biblical Research along the northern wall of this ancient Israelite city. The team discovered that the defensive embankment against the city wall had a gap at this point, where the remains of the gate were discovered. The terrain leading up to this place was internally terraced upward., and “the city gate” being at this location also makes sense because the main spring that the city’s inhabitants used was located about a kilometer to the north. It is possible that this was “the city gate” where “Eli fell backward off his chair . . . and he died”.
This is just one more example of the thousands of evidences discovered, which independently verify many places and things that are mentioned in the Bible. This mountain of evidence stands in stark contrast to the Book of Mormon, which names many places, things, civilizations, and events, that supposedly existed or happened in the Americas, but have never been independently verified with even the slightest shred of evidence.
13 thoughts on “CITY GATE DISCOVERED AT SHILOH”
It doesn’t really matter if the Bible has fewer errors than the Book of Mormon since the Bible has more falsehoods than it has truths. Even the first verse of Genesis, which refers to God, is false. We now know that God does not exist. This has been proven.
Nothing in the Bible has ever been proven false. In contrast, critics of the Bible have been proven wrong. For example, Biblical references to the Hittite and the Assyrian civilizations, and Belshazzar referred to as King (Daniel 5:1), etc.,were all referred to as fiction by critics until the 1840’s-1870’s, when archaeological discoveries proved the Bible right and the critics wrong!
RT: Nothing in the Bible has ever been proven false.
GW: That is a false claim. First, the claim that God exists in the Bible has been proven false. Secondly, the claim of what happened in the early days of the universe in Genesis in the Bible has been proven false. And lastly, there are contradictions in the Bible, and so one of the claims which contradicts must be false. A good example is on what day and what time of day was Jesus crucified.
GW: I don’t know why you continue to hide behind the Bible. The authors of the Bible are not here to defend their claims, and you cannot resurrect them. You must “stand on your own two feet” and defend your claims or those you parrot from the Bible. For example, please tell us what morally justified reasons God would have to allow the Holocaust, if he did exist. You will avoid that challenge. You don’t know what to do with it.
RT: In contrast, critics of the Bible have been proven wrong.
GW: I don’t doubt that some of them have been proven wrong, but not most of them.
RT: For example, Biblical references to the Hittite and the Assyrian civilizations, and Belshazzar referred to as King (Daniel 5:1), etc.,were all referred to as fiction by critics until the 1840’s-1870’s, when archaeological discoveries proved the Bible right and the critics wrong!
GW: Big deal! God does not exist. This has been proven. And that is a big deal! Refocus your attention on the important issues, not the peripheral ones.
No, God’s existence has been confirmed by the facts of science and logic. Both the Bible and science agree that (1) the universe had a “beginning” (Genesis 1:1), (2) that “what is seen was not made out of what is visible” (Hebrews 11:3 NIV), and ‘the universe is stretching out’, or expanding (Isaiah 42:5 NIV), which confirms the universe had a beginning. Anything that has a beginning has a cause, and something cannot come from nothing. The extreme organization of the universe reflects design, and design means there has to be a designer (Hebrews 3:4).
There are no contradictions in the Bible. The four Gospel records of Jesus’ life have divergent details, but no contradictions, which is just what we would expect from independent, honest, witness accounts. If you want to insist on your claim that the Gospels contradict each other in their accounts of the day and time of Jesus’ death, specify and quote exactly which scriptures you think contradict each other.
The Bible plainly states that God allowed Satan to cause harm, suffering and death in the case of Job (Job 1:6-19; 2:1-10), and that he is still allowing Satan, and humans, to cause similar things to a degree (1 Peter 5:8; Ecclesiastes 8:9), i.e., the Holocaust.
RT: No, God’s existence has been confirmed by the facts of science and logic.
GW: False. It has been proven by science and philosophy together that God does not exist. I have even presented several of the proofs to you and you have found no errors in them. Here is the most recent:
1. If God did exist, then the Holocaust would not have occurred.
2. The Holocaust did occur.
3. Therefore, God does not exist.
You have been unable to think of any morally justified reasons why God would allow the Holocaust. And thus, the argument stands correct.
RT: Both the Bible and science agree that (1) the universe had a “beginning” (Genesis 1:1),
GW: As we have discussed before, it depends on how you define “beginning” or what type of “beginning” you are referring to. Genesis says God created the universe. Science says nothing about God. Therefore, they do not agree. Science asserts the fact of the Big Bang. Genesis says nothing about the Big Bang, and thus they do not agree. Science asserts the fact of the evolution of species, but Genesis asserts the idea of the special creation of species by God. Thus, they do not agree. The Bible and science have irreconcilable differences. Step out of the primitive world of the Bible and join us in the modern world.
RT: (2) that “what is seen was not made out of what is visible” (Hebrews 11:3 NIV),
GW: The universe is mostly made out of atoms. Individual atoms are not visible, but the author of Hebrews knew nothing about atoms.
RT: and ‘the universe is stretching out’, or expanding (Isaiah 42:5 NIV), which confirms the universe had a beginning.
GW: Expansion does not equal beginning.
RT: Anything that has a beginning has a cause,…
GW: Did electrons, quarks, and photons have a beginning or a cause? Did energy-matter have a beginning or a cause? If you say yes or no, how do you know?
RT: and something cannot come from nothing.
GW: We’ve always agreed on this idea. And therefore, the universe cannot come from nothing, which means that it has always existed in some form or another. Before, during, and after the Big Bang, the universe existed in different forms.
RT: The extreme organization of the universe reflects design, and design means there has to be a designer (Hebrews 3:4).
GW: False. The universe is orderly in structures and processes. No designer is required. It is highly likely that the order is intrinsic and eternal.
RT: There are no contradictions in the Bible.
GW: I already cited one and there are many more.
RT: The four Gospel records of Jesus’ life have divergent details, but no contradictions, which is just what we would expect from independent, honest, witness accounts.
GW: Here is second contradiction. The following passages from Matthew and Mark contradict each other on the stone at the tomb:
Matthew 28:2, NIV: “2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.”
Mark 16:3-4, NIV: “3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?” 4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away.”
RT: If you want to insist on your claim that the Gospels contradict each other in their accounts of the day and time of Jesus’ death, specify and quote exactly which scriptures you think contradict each other.
GW: The following passages from Mark and John contradict each other on the time of the crucifixion of Jesus:
Mark 15:25, NIV: “It was nine in the morning when they crucified him.” is contradicted by this:
John 19:14-16 NIV: “14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews. 15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!” “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered. 16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.”
RT: The Bible plainly states that God allowed Satan to cause harm, suffering and death in the case of Job (Job 1:6-19; 2:1-10),
GW: I agree that the author of Job says this, but he is mistaken. If God did exist, he would never authorize Satan to cause harm to humans. That would be immoral, and if God did exist, he would be perfectly moral. In fact, God would either not have created Satan at all or would have extinguished Satan after he engaged in his first immoral act.
RT: and that he is still allowing Satan, and humans, to cause similar things to a degree (1 Peter 5:8; Ecclesiastes 8:9), i.e., the Holocaust.
GW: Nonsense! Although he doesn’t exist (see above), let’s assume for the sake of argument that Satan does exist. If God did exist, what morally justified reasons do you believe God would have to authorize Satan to cause Hitler to cause the Holocaust? Be specific. Of course you don’t have a good answer to that question because there is none. God does not exist and cannot exist!
The divergent details you mentioned are not contradictions, when they are viewed in their contexts, and in the light of the historical background on the way time was viewed back then.
The women asked, “who will roll away the stone”?, when “they were on their way to the tomb” (Mark 16:2,3 NIV), but when they got to the tomb, “they saw that the stone . . . had been rolled away” (Mark 16:4 NIV).
Times back then were not as precise as today. “The third hour” (Mark 15:25 NASB) meant mid-morning. “About the sixth hour” meant about mid-day. The preliminary crucifixion process may have begun about mid-morning and lasted until about mid-day.
RT: The divergent details you mentioned are not contradictions, when they are viewed in their contexts, and in the light of the historical background on the way time was viewed back then.
GW: When you look at the contexts of the different verses and you realize that time was viewed simply back then, it is even clearer that these are contradictions. It is not surprising that different human authors, who were not observers of the events which they describe, would get the details wrong about the events and that their descriptions would conflict, as is the case here.
RT: The women asked, “who will roll away the stone”?, when “they were on their way to the tomb” (Mark 16:2,3 NIV), but when they got to the tomb, “they saw that the stone . . . had been rolled away” (Mark 16:4 NIV).
GW: Here, not only did you provide no context, you merely cited the Mark passage as I had. You didn’t even mention the Matthew 28:2 verse which contradicts what you presented here.
RT: Times back then were not as precise as today.
GW: Time was the same then and now, but people did not speak of time in seconds and minutes as we do, probably because they did not have measuring devices for this precision. They measured time by looking at the position of the sun in the sky or by using sun dials.
RT: “The third hour” (Mark 15:25 NASB) meant mid-morning.
GW: False. The third hour meant 9 AM.
RT: “About the sixth hour” meant about mid-day.
GW: False. The sixth hour meant 12 noon, and the relevant verse says “noon” not the “sixth hour.”
RT: The preliminary crucifixion process may have begun about mid-morning and lasted until about mid-day.
GW: False. You are misreading the verses to conform with your preconceived and biased conclusion. What is the crucifixion? It is the process of putting Jesus on the cross by a group of Roman soldiers and letting him remain that way until removed. According to Mark this process began around 9 AM, but according to John it was around noon when Pilate was still discussing what to do with Jesus and then deciding to have him crucified. How long did this discussion last? We don’t know, but at most maybe 15 minutes. Then Jesus was prepared for crucifixion and taken to the site of the process. How long did this take? We don’t know, but at most maybe 90 minutes. So our best estimate for the beginning of the crucifixion, from the time given in John, would be 1:45 PM. So, 9 AM and 1:45 PM are almost five hours apart! One or both reports is WRONG! The authors contradict each other. This is as clear as it could possibly be.
GW: When you deny the contradictions in the Bible you are thinking IRRATIONALLY. You cannot reach the truth as long as you think this way. What are the broader implications? First, the Bible is not inerrant. Secondly, God had nothing to do with the writing of the Bible. If he had, then it would be inerrant. In fact we now know that God does not exist. How do we know? From several valid proofs, some of which I have presented to you and in none of these you have found an error.
GW: If God did exist, what morally justified reasons do you believe he would have for allowing the Holocaust to occur? We are still waiting for your answer. You love distractions, delays, and tangents. Don’t be like a politician. Instead, give a direct sincere answer.
You have not proven any contradictions in the Bible. Further clarification is, as follows:
While the women were walking on the way to the tomb, they asked, according to Mark 16:2,3, “Who will roll the stone away”? While they were en route, a violent earthquake occurred, and an angel rolled the stone back from in front of the tomb, as Matthew 28:1,2 states. When the women arrived at the tomb, “they saw that the stone . . . had been [past tense] rolled away”, as Mark 16:4 states. The accounts are complimentary, not contradictory.
Matthew, Mark and Luke used Jewish times of day, which went from sundown to sundown. It appears that John, who apparently wrote his gospel in the the huge Roman city of Ephesus, may have used Roman times of day, which went from midnight to midnight. Examples of this are in John 1:39; 4:6,52; and 19:14. Thus, “very early in the morning . . . they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate” (Mark 15:1 NIV). This harmonizes very well with the view that John may have been using Roman time when he said, “It is was about the sixth hour” (NASB), or about 6 AM, according to the Greek, when Jesus was before Pilate (John 19:13,14). These accounts are also complimentary, not contradictory!
God’s allowance of evil has been explained to you many times from the Bible. No one, including Almighty God is attempting to force you to believe anything.
RT: You have not proven any contradictions in the Bible. Further clarification is, as follows:
GW: False. I already presented you two contradictions in the Bible. You deny them and so you are not thinking rationally.
RT: While the women were walking on the way to the tomb, they asked, according to Mark 16:2,3, “Who will roll the stone away”? While they were en route, a violent earthquake occurred, and an angel rolled the stone back from in front of the tomb, as Matthew 28:1,2 states. When the women arrived at the tomb, “they saw that the stone . . . had been [past tense] rolled away”, as Mark 16:4 states. The accounts are complimentary, not contradictory.
GW: False. You are just misinterpreting the Matthew verse. According to Matthew, the women were AT THE TOMB and OBSERVED the earthquake and the angel rolling back the stone. They later reported their observations to other persons in a chain of communication which eventually led to a second-hand report to the author of Matthew. If the women did not make these observations we would not know about them; the details would not be in Matthew. Your interpretation makes no sense.
GW: The contradiction stands. Mathew’s report that an angel rolled back the stone, as the women would have observed, is contradicted by Mark, Luke, and John who reported that the women found the stone already rolled back. Furthermore, if an angel had rolled back the stone, Mark, Luke, and John would have ALSO reported it, especially if God supervised their writing in some way. They did not report any such thing. The contradiction is obvious.
RT: Matthew, Mark and Luke used Jewish times of day, which went from sundown to sundown.
GW: All the Gospel writers would have used the same system of reporting in terms of hours as inferred from the position of the sun in the sky, especially if God were supervising their writing.
RT: It appears that John, who apparently wrote his gospel in the the huge Roman city of Ephesus, may have used Roman times of day, which went from midnight to midnight.
GW: All the Gospel writers would have used the same system of reporting time. Also, “noon” is when the sun is at its peak overhead in the sky, regardless of which system of reporting is being used.
RT: Examples of this are in John 1:39; 4:6,52; and 19:14. Thus, “very early in the morning . . . they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate” (Mark 15:1 NIV).
GW: These verses are not describing the crucifixion! They are describing other events prior to the crucifixion. In these verses Pilate had not yet decided (perhaps with the input of others) that Jesus would be crucified. According to John the crucifixion occurred sometime AFTER THE NOON, whereas according to Mark, it occurred in the third hour, which would be sometime BEFORE THE NOON. The verses are clearly in contradiction.
RT: This harmonizes very well with the view that John may have been using Roman time when he said, “It is was about the sixth hour” (NASB), according to the Greek, when Jesus was before Pilate (John 19:13,14).
GW: You can’t cherry pick translations to make your point, which you have tried to do here. You can’t use the NIV and the NASB in the same analysis. That would be cheating. I presented my conclusions, using the NIV, and so if you wish to disagree, you must also use the NIV.
GW: As I have shown, the verses are contradictory and you have failed to harmonize them. It amazes me how any adult human person can see the facts right in front of them and still deny them. It reminds me of Donald Trump and his worshipers denying the facts of the 2020 election. Why do human persons do this?
GW: I have asked you many times to present morally justified reasons which you believe God would have for allowing the Holocaust, if he did exist. You have presented none. Why? Because you can think of none. Why? Because there are none! If God did exist and had morally justified reasons for allowing the Holocaust, he would have already told you and the WORLD what they were! But if you will think carefully and rationally, you will see that there could be NO morally justified reasons to allow, authorize, or cause the Holocaust. Therefore, the following argument is correct:
1. If God did exist, the Holocaust would not have occurred.
2. The Holocaust did occur.
3. Therefore, God does not exist.
The New Testament was written in Koine’ Greek. We are free to use any English translations we wish to, and usually there is not an issue of accuracy. Where there is an issue, we use the one(s) which is/are generally the most accurate for the particular verse(s) we quote. “Noon” in the 2011 revision of the NIV is an interpretive opinion, or paraphrase.The 1984 revision of the NIV used “about the sixth hour”, which is literally what the Greek says. The latest NIV study Bible, in its note on John 19:14 says that it is possible John was using Roman time, thus making Jesus’ appearance before Pilate start at 6 AM.
The four gospel accounts provide parallel accounts with divergent details. You are obviously unaware that, according to Luke 23:1-25, the Jewish leaders brought Jesus before Pilate, who questioned him, then sent him to King Herod, who was also in town for the Passover festival. Herod questioned Jesus, and he and “his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him”, and then “they sent him back to Pilate” (Luke 23:11 NIV). All of this would have taken some time.
In Matthew 28:2, “there was a violent earthquake” (NIV), carries the sense that, “Now there had been”. The parallel accounts at Mark 16:2-6; Luke 24:1-7; John 20:1 make it clear that the events of Matthew 28:2-4 occurred before the women actually arrived at the tomb.
Thus, there are no contradictions anywhere in the Bible. Biblical evidence proves the critics wrong, every time!
RT: The New Testament was written in Koine’ Greek.
GW: That is totally irrelevant! Honest authors would use and accurately represent reports of eye witnesses or other people who heard from eyewitness in a chain.
RT: We are free to use any English translations we wish to, and usually there is not an issue of accuracy.
GW: Yes, you are free to do that by behaving unethically. If you proceed ethically, however, you will attempt to refute my claims by using the same translation I use, i.e. NIV. For analysis set the translation to NIV in using https://www.biblegateway.com/
RT: Where there is an issue, we use the one(s) which is/are generally the most accurate for the particular verse(s) we quote.
GW: No, those of us who conduct ethical investigations and debates don’t cherry pick like that. We select one translation which we believe to be the best and we stick with that.
RT: “Noon” in the 2011 revision of the NIV is an interpretive opinion, or paraphrase.
GW: Every translation of every verse is an interpretive opinion! The goal is to capture the actual experience of actual persons. To all the Jews at the time of the crucifixion, including Jesus himself, “noon” meant “that time of day when the sun is at its peak overhead.” You know this. Don’t try to cheat.
RT: The 1984 revision of the NIV used “about the sixth hour”, which is literally what the Greek says. The latest NIV study Bible, in its note on John 19:14 says that it is possible John was using Roman time, thus making Jesus’ appearance before Pilate start at 6 AM.
GW: All that is completely irrelevant! I am using the current NIV from Bible Gateway which is what you should be using. You are trying to cheat, and I won’t let you do that. Besides, you have not even given a definition and explanation of “Roman time” to show its similarities and differences to ancient Jewish time.
RT: The four gospel accounts provide parallel accounts with divergent details.
GW: Yes, and some of the details are contradictory, as I have demonstrated. But, if God was involved in the writing of the Bible, then he would not allow “divergent details” or contradictory ones.
RT: You are obviously unaware that, according to Luke 23:1-25, the Jewish leaders brought Jesus before Pilate, who questioned him, then sent him to King Herod, who was also in town for the Passover festival. Herod questioned Jesus, and he and “his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him”, and then “they sent him back to Pilate” (Luke 23:11 NIV). All of this would have taken some time.
GW: I am aware of what Luke says. You still have not refuted the contradictions.
RT: In Matthew 28:2, “there was a violent earthquake” (NIV), carries the sense that, “Now there had been”. The parallel accounts at Mark 16:2-6; Luke 24:1-7; John 20:1 make it clear that the events of Matthew 28:2-4 occurred before the women actually arrived at the tomb.
GW: False. I already refuted this idea of yours. We would not know of the earthquake and the angel rolling away the stone if the women did not observe these details. You are not thinking clearly. Maybe you should have another cup of coffee.
RT: Thus, there are no contradictions anywhere in the Bible.
GW: False. I already presented two contradictions which you have not yet refuted.
RT: Biblical evidence proves the critics wrong, every time!
GW: My analysis proves you wrong every time! You can read the Bible all you want, but if you can’t think critically about it, then you won’t reach the truth. “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free!”
GW: You continue to evade my question about the Holocaust. What morally justified reasons do you believe God would have for allowing the Holocaust, if he did exist? There is only one correct answer – “there are and can be NO morally justified reasons for allowing, authorizing, or causing the Holocaust!” Why are you afraid to acknowledge this?
This website follows what God’s Word, the Bible, says about honesty and ethics. Since you disagree, perhaps you’re at the wrong website.
Roman time and Jewish time were both explained here, and compared, on November 19th.
RT: This website follows what God’s Word, the Bible, says about honesty and ethics.
GW: First, the Bible is not God’s Word. Why? Because it has contradictions, as I have shown, and because God does not exist. Secondly, the website does not promote honesty and ethics.
RT: Since you disagree, perhaps you’re at the wrong website.
GW: No, I am at the right website. I have a moral duty to speak truth to falsehood and rationality to irrationality.
RT: Roman time and Jewish time were both explained here, and compared, on November 19th.
GW: False. You never explained either one. Nevertheless, even if the Romans and Jews had different ways of reporting time (something you have not proven), NOON would have meant the same thing to them. According to Mark, the crucifixion occurred hours before NOON, but according to John, it occurred after NOON. This is a contradiction. Therefore, the Bible has errors and for this reason it is not and cannot be the Word of God.
GW: You continue to evade my question about the Holocaust. Is it ethical for you to evade my question on this website? Nevertheless, here is a new argument for you:
The Nuremberg Trials Argument Against the Existence of God: 11-21-2022
1. If God did exist, he would have testified at the Nuremberg Trials and presented his reasons for allowing the Holocaust to occur.
2. God did not testify at the Nuremberg Trials.
3. Therefore, God does not exist.
I challenge you to find any error in that one. There are probably over a hundred correct arguments showing beyond a reasonable doubt that God does not exist. So far, you have found no errors in the few I have presented to you. Why would any adult human person in the modern world continue to believe in God when it is so obvious that he does not exist?
GW: Is there anybody else who is reading this discussion? If so, speak up and render your opinions.