When Was the Book of Daniel Written?

When Was the Book of Daniel Written?

When was the book of Daniel written? The dating of when the book of Daniel was written is controversial. Popular, common arguments, even by Biblical “scholars” nowadays, claim that the writer of Daniel was pseudonymous, and therefore a fraud. So they dat­e the book of Daniel as being written in the second century BCE, during the time of the rule of Antiochus IV Epiphanes (175-164 BCE).

CRITICAL SCHOLARS CLAIM THE WRITER OF DANIEL IS A FRAUD

“You may be privately wondering, ‘How are we to tell that a prophecy does not come from Yahweh?’ When a prophet speaks in the name of Yahweh and the thing does not happen and the word is not fulfilled, it has not been spoken by Yahweh. The prophet has spoken presumptuously. You have nothing to fear from him”—Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NJB. This verse is a Biblical test of whether prophecy is genuine, or not. To portray something as prophecy, when it was actually written after the fact, is fraudulent, and violates the principle expressed above. Yet, this exactly what critics claim the book of Daniel is — a fraud!

CRITICAL SCHOLARS REASONS FOR DATING DANIEL IN THE FIRST CENTURY BCE

Critical scholars main arguments for the late dating of Daniel are as follows:

  • Jesus ben Sirach (Sirach 44-50), writing the book Ecclesiasticus, or The Wisdom of Ben Sira, in approximately 180 BCE, cited numerous Old Testament heroes—but not Daniel. This means that Daniel was unknown early in the second century BCE, so the Book of Daniel could not have been written prior to that time.
  • The book’s theology, and its position in the Hebrew Scriptures with the Writings rather than the Prophets, and its “historical inaccuracies” of events prior to the the 2nd century BCE, demand a late date of composition. For example, Daniel 1:1,2 says, “In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came and laid siege to Jerusalem. The Lord handed over to him Jehoiakim, king of Judah” (NAB). However, Jeremiah 25:1 says it was “the fourth year of Jehoiakim” that was “the first year of Nebuchadnezzar.” (Also see Jeremiah 46:2).
  • The Persian loan words used (including some titles for officials in chapter 3) indicate a late date for the book’s composition.
  • The fiery furnace account in Daniel 1:1,2 reads like a legend. The omission of Daniel’s name in Daniel 3:12 is evidence that the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego was a legend that had circulated independently of other narratives in the book. The author of Daniel conflated older tales into one story to inspire faithfulness during the persecutions of Antiochus IV.
  • Belshazzar is called “king” of Babylon and the “son” of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 5; the actual king was Nabonidus, who was really his father. Until the 1850’s, for example, critics claimed that “Belshazzar” (Daniel 5:1) did not even exist, because there was no mention of him outside the Bible, or works dependent upon the Bible, and extant historical sources said that Nabonidus was the last king of Babylon.
  • Darius the Mede (Daniel 5:30-6:28; 9:1) is unknown outside the Bible.
  • The stories of Nebuchadnezzar’s insanity and of the fiery fur­nace read like pious legends—far-fetched miracle stories com­mon in intertestamental Jewish texts.
  • To avoid fulfillment of long-range predictive prophecy in Daniel, adherents of the late-date view usually claim the four kingdoms foreseen by Daniel as the Babylonians, the Medes, the Persians, and finally, the Greeks, including the Selucids and the Ptolemies.
  • Long-range predictive prophecy is not possible. For example, the actions of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in Daniel 11:21-35 are so accurately described that they only masqueraded as prophecy, and had to have been written after the fact. Prominent among these critics is the Greek philosopher Porphyry of the 3rd century CE (about 233-304 CE), who produced a work called Against the Christians, in fifteen volumes, which he elucidated his detailed arguments.
  • The statements, “The law of the Medes and the Persians . . . cannot be altered . . . cannot be repealed” (Daniel 6:8 NIV) isn’t supported by history outside of the Bible.
  • Half of Daniel was written in Aramaic, a language Jews spoke during the intertestamental period. Daniel 3 also in­cludes three Greek loan words—suggesting that the book was writ­ten after Greek culture had invaded the Near East.
  • The Persian loan words in Daniel (including some titles for officials listed in chapter 3) indicate a late date for the book.
  • There are a number of places in Daniel 1-7 where he is referred to in the third person, which is evidence he didn’t write the book himself.
  • There are three additions to Daniel that were definitely written during Maccabean times. These were written 1st century BCE Greek (not in the Hebrew-Aramaic of the canonical part of Daniel), and are called, “The Song of the Three Young Men” (Daniel 3:24-90), “Susanna and the Elders” (Daniel 13), and “The Destruction of Bel and the Dragon” (Daniel 14).
  • But all this above “evidence” is not as strong as it appears on the surface: Ben Sirach also omits mention of other famous Israelites, in­cluding Ezra. Also, Sirach may himself have been influenced by Daniel. In Sirach 36:10 he prayed, “Hasten the day, and remem­ber the appointed time”—verbiage resembling Daniel 11:27 and Daniel 11:35. It may be that Ben Sirach offhandedly cited Daniel, which, of course, implies that the book already existed in his lifetime.

BIBLICAL EVIDENCE OF THE TIME OF WRITING

The Bible indicates that the book was composed in the sixth century BCE, finished by about 535 BCE, concurrent with the his­torical information it provides.

“In the first year of King Belshazzar of Babylon, as Daniel lay in bed he had a dream, visions in his head. Then he wrote down the dream: the account began: In the vision I saw during the night . . . “—Daniel 7:1,2 NAB

“After this first vision, I, Daniel, had another, in the third year of King Belshazzar . . .”—Daniel 8:1 NAB

“It was the third year that Darius, son of Ahasuerus, of the race of the Medes, reigned over the kingdom of the Chaldeans; in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years . .  .”—-Daniel 9:1,2 NAB

“In the third third year of Cyrus, king of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel . . . In those days, I, Daniel, mourned three full weeks”—Daniel 10:1,2 NAB. “The third year of Cyrus’ reign was 536 BCE”—NLT  footnote

“Now I shall tell you the truth . . . “—Daniel 11:1 NAB

“You, Daniel, keep secret the message and seal the book until the end . . . “—Daniel 12:4 NAB

These Biblical statements above all claim that the Book of Daniel was written by the ancient Hebrew prophet Daniel in the 6th century BCE. If these statements are not true, then the book is a forgery, a pseudonymous fraud.

FACTUAL EVIDENCE OF THE AUTHENTICITY OF DANIEL

The book of Daniel demonstrates familiarity with the history and culture of the seventh and sixth centuries BCE. Archaeological discoveries have confirmed the reliability of the book in many instances. Alleged historical inaccuracies have either been found to be nonexistent, or have reasonable explanations, upon close examination. Objective evidence supports the fact that the prophet Daniel himself wrote the book in the 6th century BCE, and definitively excludes the late-date, 2nd century BCE, hypothesis for the Book of Daniel on a number of counts:

  • Daniel claimed to write the book (Daniel 12:4), and from Daniel 7:2 onward he used the autobiographical first person. The Jewish Talmud agrees with this testimony, and Jesus Christ attributes quotes from Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11, to “Daniel the prophet” (Matthew 24:15).
  • Ecclesiasticus or The Wisdom of Ben Sira is an apocryphal, uninspired book. The same list of Old Testament heroes in this book also omits Ezra and Mordecai (who were great heroes to postexilic Jews), Jehoshaphat, Job, and all the judges except Samuel. Daniel’s omission from a list in a non canonical book, that makes no claim to being exhaustive, doesn’t prove he was a fictitious character, or that the writer Book of Daniel is a pseudonymous fraud.
  • The Babylonian system of counting the years of a king’s reign did not include his accession year, but the system used in Judah did. Jehoiakim’s accession year was 608 BCE. Thus, Daniel, in Babylon, calculated according to the accession year system, wrote that Jehoiakim’s “third year” (1:1) was the year Nebuchadnezzar invaded Judah (605 BCE). But Jeremiah, in Jerusalem, calculated using the non-accession year system, and accurately stated that Jehoiakim’s “fourth year” was Nebuchadnezzar’s “first year” (25:1). It is unlikely that a shrewd forger, as critics claim the writer of Daniel was, would contradict so respected a source as Jeremiah, especially in the very first verse of the book.
  • Daniel did not complete the book until some time after the Persian conquest of Babylon and even served in the new administration, so the presence of older, pre-Hellenistic, Persian loan words is not surprising. In fact, it is highly significant, because they are strong evidence for a date of composition not long after the Babylonian exile in the 6th century BCE, since these are Old Persian words that ceased to used by about 300 BCE. Some of the technical terms used in Daniel 3 were already so obsolete by the 2nd century BCE that the translators of the Greek Septuagint Version (LXX) mistranslated them.
  • The three Greek loan words used (Daniel 3:5,7,10,15) do not prove a late date of composition. Greek musicians and musical terms were renowned, so their vocabulary came into use early, and their use here is not surprising. One of those terms (kitharis, “zither”) is documented in Homer (8th century BCE), and even though the others (psalerion, “harp”; symphonia, “double-flute”, “pipe[s]”, “bagpipe”, or “drum”), are not mentioned until after the 6th century BCE, the argument from silence does not mean they were unknown in Babylon in the 6th century BCE. Archaeology has demonstrated extensive Greek trade and influence in the Near East during this period, and Greek mercenaries even served in Nebuchadnezzar’s army. As a matter of fact, the sparse number of Greek terms in the book of Daniel is one of the more convincing arguments that Daniel wasn’t written in the 2nd century BCE, when Greek culture was at its height.
  • Punishment by burning (Daniel 3:6) is well attested in the ancient Near East. The Code of Hammurabi stipulated burning for various crimes. A letter from ancient Babylon was discovered that specifically mentions burning in a furnace as a punishment. Burning as a form of execution was a practice of Babylonian rulers. According to Jeremiah 29:22 Nebuchadnezzar executed two Jewish false prophets, Zedekiah and Ahab, by “fire.” Burning as a penalty for certain crimes appears twice in the Code of Hammurabi, the system of law set forth by that Babylonian king. Another early Babylonian king, Rim-Sin, is documented as having punished in this way.
  • The conjecture that, the omission of Daniel’s name as being among those who were required to be on the plain of Dura (3:12) to bow down to the giant image proves the account to be a legend, simply has no objective support. Daniel’s position as “ruler of the entire province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon” (Daniel 2:48 NAB) likely required his presence at the palace.
  • The three apocryphal additions to the book of Daniel are referred to as pious legendary embroidery” in The New Bible Dictionary by Douglas. These additions are not historical, but are unreliable fables revolving around the great fame of Daniel. These additions do not disprove the fact that the canonical part of Daniel was written in the 6th century BCE.
  • In modern times evidence has come to light indicating the writer of the book had firsthand knowledge of the times he wrote about. He recorded, “King Nebuchadnezzar . . . was taking a walk on the flat roof of the royal palace in Babylon. As he looks out across the city, he said, ‘Look at this great city of Babylon. By my own mighty power I have built this beautiful city as my royal residence to display my majestic splendor” (Daniel 4:28-30 NLT).  In the past, the evidence of Nebuchadnezzar’s arrogant extravagance was not extant, but modern archaeologists have now confirmed that Nebuchadnezzar was the mastermind behind much of the fabulous buildings and features of the ancient city of Babylon. His boastfulness is confirmed by the fact that he had kiln-fired bricks (rather than sun-dried) used for his many projects, with many of the bricks stamped with his name on them.
  • In 1854, some small clay cylinders with cuneiform writing were discovered in ancient Ur, in what is now southern Iraq. These documents from King Nabonidus included a prayer for “Bel-sar-ussur, my eldest son,” thus proving to critics that Belshazzar did exist, and was therefore not fictional. Daniel rightly portrays the position of Belshazzar as co-regent with Nabonidus. He could have appropriately been called “king”, just as he is in Daniel 5:1. In Daniel 5:16 Belshazzar offered to make the one who could interpret the writing on the wall “the third highest ruler in the kingdom.” As Belshazzar was himself the second in-charge ruler, this was the highest honor he possibly could confer.Since the 1850’s, at least 37 archival texts have been discovered that demonstrate that Belshazzar was a real person. Cuneiform documents have been discovered that showed Belshazzar had household secretaries and a household staff, and that Nabonidus was away from Babylon for years at a time, and during these periods, he “entrusted the kingship”  of Babylon to his oldest son (Belshazzar). The fact that Belshazzar could only offer “the third highest position in the kingdom,” “third in governing the kingdom” (Daniel 5:7,16 HCSB; Daniel 5:29 NAB), is strong evidence that Daniel had accurate knowledge of Nabonidus, and his, and Belshazzar’s positions. Nabonidus was first in rank, followed by his son Belshazzar, and whoever could interpret the handwriting on the wall would be “the third.” Evidence indicates that Nabonidus married Nebuchadnezzar’s daughter, which makes makes Belshazzar Nebuchadnezzar’s grandson. Neither Aramaic nor Hebrew have words for “grandfather” or “grandson.”  “Son of” can mean “grandson,” or even “descendent of.
  • It is true that “Darius the Mede” (Daniel 5:31-6:28; 9:1) is not mentioned by that name outside the Bible. This is the kind of historical puzzle scholars frequently encounter in ancient texts. While we can’t be dogmatic, or know it with 100% certainty, it is very interesting to note that the Nabonidus Chronicle provides evidence that identifies “Darius the Mede” with a governor named Gubaru. This is certainly plausible, because Daniel 5:31 says that “Darius the Mede received the kingdom at about the age of sixty-two.” (NASB; NRSV; NJKV; CSB; HCSB). This is a passive ‘receiving of the kingdom.’  Daniel 9:1 says, “In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans” (Daniel 9:1 NASB). Being “made king” is an indication that he is in a subordinate, rather than top, position. Normally, an author would not speak of a conquerer ‘receiving’ a kingdom. So it can be conjectured that Darius the Mede was not a “king” of the same standing as Cyrus. Also important to note is the fact that Daniel never refers to this Darius as the king over Persia or the Medes, but simply as the ruler of “the Chaldeans”, or Babylonians.
  • The identifications of the four kingdoms as the Babylonians, the Medes, the Persians, and the Greeks is problematic because there is no evidence of an independent Median kingdom between the Babylonian and the Persian kingdoms. Daniel viewed the next kingdom after Babylon as being that of “the Medes and the Persians” (Daniel 5:28; 6:8) jointly. Further corroborating this is the vision in chapter 8 of the ram and goat, in which “the two horned ram . . . represents kings of Media and Persia” (Daniel 8:20). The “third kingdom” (Daniel 2:39), which is also the  “third of these strange beasts” (Daniel 7:6 NLT), is obviously Greece. “The he-goat is the king of the Greeks, and the great horn on its forehead is the first king” (Daniel 8:21 (NAB), is obviously Alexander the Great. This “kingdom” of Greece ruled from 336 BCE until 63 CE.
  • The “fourth kingdom” (Daniel 2:40), which also “the fourth beast” (Daniel 7:7 NLT), that was predicted in the book of Daniel, is obviously the Roman Empire, which did not come to power and take control of Syria/Palestine, until 63 BCE, 100 years after the time of Antiochus IV. This, alone, is enough to prove that the book of Daniel has accurate predictive prophecy.
  • Daniel wasn’t placed in the Writings section of the Hebrew Bible because the book was written later, or because his credentials were doubtful, as critics claim. In fact, the canon of accepted books of the Hebrew Bible was closed back around 400 BCE, long before the 2nd century BCE when critics claim Daniel was written. At Qumran, the religious center where the Dead Sea Scrolls came from, the book had great prominence. Both the Septuagint and Josephus placed Daniel with the Prophets. Daniel being placed in the Writings rather than the Prophets in the Hebrew Bible was likely due to the fact that Daniel was mainly a statesman in Babylon, not primarily a prophetic preacher, and not located in the nation of Israel like Isaiah and Jeremiah. However, the prophecies in the book of Daniel are unmistakably some of the most striking long-term prophecies of the Old Testament!
  • Predictive prophecy is not only possible, but expected, from a true prophet of God. Several prophecies in Daniel could not have taken place by the 2nd century BCE anyway, so the prophetic element cannot be dismissed. The symbolism connected to the 4th kingdom makes it unmistakably predictive of the Roman Empire (Daniel 2:33; 7:7,19), which didn’t take control control of Palestine until 63 BCE. Also, the prediction “that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks” (Daniel 9:25 NASB), or 483 years, works out to the exact time of Jesus’ ministry. (For a more in-depth look at this prophecy and its fulfillment, please see the article, “Seventy Weeks of the Prophecy of Daniel,” on this website.)
  • In contrast, intertestamental Jewish works of religious fiction lack historical credibility in a way that has no parallel in historical works. The Apocryphal book of Judith, for example, written during the reign of Antiochus IV, contains absurd historical blunders and is altogether unlike the book of Daniel.
  • The conjecture that Daniel 3 is a mythical tale because Daniel is not mentioned in the narrative has no objective support. The fact that “the king placed Daniel in a high position and . . . made him ruler over the entire province of Babylon and placed him in charge of all its wise men” (Daniel 2:48 NIV) probably required his presence in the palace, rather than on “the plain of Dura” (Daniel 3:1).
  • The miracles of Daniel are beyond the scope of history or archaeology to prove, or disprove. Miracles do not prove that a work is fictional. Nebuchadnezzar’s insanity was apparently a rare, but authentic, clinical condition called boanthropy. “Made-up” miracle stories often contain fictitious conditions and/or remedies. An example of this is in the Apocryphal book Tobit, 2:9,10, where Tobit goes blind because of sparrow dung dropping into his eyes.
  • The fact that half of Daniel is written in Aramaic is not explainable with regard to any proposed reconstruction of its history. The Aramaic of Daniel is “official,” or “imperiaI”—the stan­dardized Aramaic used in official correspondence when Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Near East (see 2 Kings 18:26; Ezra 4:7; Daniel 2:4), not the colloquial, regional Aramaic of second-century BCE Palestine, at which time the common language of the region was Greek. Linguistic evidence from the Dead Sea Scrolls (which furnish authentic samples of Hebrew and Aramaic writing from the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE) demonstrates that the both the Hebrew and Aramaic chapters of Daniel must have been composed centuries earlier. Daniel’s Hebrew is remarkably similar to Ezekiel’s, and his Aramaic is very similar to that of Ezra and the Elephantine Papyri, and other secular works of that period, also written in imperial Aramaic, dated to the 5th century BCE. In contrast, Daniel’s Aramaic does not conform to later samples of Aramaic found at Qumran (such as the Genesis Apocryphon).
  • Daniel’s quote that “the law of the Medes and the Persians,” “cannot be altered . . . cannot be repealed” (Daniel 6:8 NIV) is supported by the fact that the historian Diodorus Siculus (17:30) reported that Darius III (336-330 BCE) executed an innocent man because he could not change what had been decreed by royal authority.  The immutability of Medo-Persian laws is also confirmed  by Esther 1:19, “the laws of Persia and Media, which cannot be repealed” (NAB), and 8:8, “no document written in the king’s name and sealed with his ring can be repealed” (NAB).
  • The Dead Sea Scrolls have provided new helpful evidence on the time of the writing of Daniel. Cave 1 at Qumran contained several fragments of the book (1QDana-b) in a script suggesting a second-century BCE date. Other Daniel fragments from Cave 4 are in a style suggestive of a late Hasmonean or early Herodian date. There were a total of 8 manuscripts of Daniel discovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls. It would be very unlikely that such an unusual book, written as late as circa the 160’s BCE, would have been so quickly accepted, copied and circulated as authoritative Scripture. “A Maccabean dating for Daniel has now to be abandoned, if only because there could not possibly be a sufficient interval between the composition of Daniel and its appearance in the form of copies in the library of a Maccabean religious sect” (The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible).
  • Seven of the eight scrolls of the book of Daniel from Qumran contain the book in the shorter form found in Jewish and Protestant Bibles. Every chapter of Daniel is represented in these eight manuscripts, except chapter 12. However, one of the nonbiblical scrolls, known as the Florilegium (4Q174) (circa 25 BCE), quotes Daniel 12:10 as written in the “the book of Daniel the prophet.”  The writer(s) of this document obviously knew Daniel as a complete book, and not just traditions circulating. This indicates that at Qumran, Daniel was not only being quoted as scripture, but was classified among the Prophets, rather than the Writings, which is additional evidence that Daniel contains predictive prophecy. Additional evidence that Daniel was quoted, or referred to, as scripture, at Qumran is in 11QMelchizedek, where it refers to the “Anointed of the Spirit, of whom Daniel spoke”  (Daniel 9:25,26). For Daniel to be quoted as scripture by this time, gives evidence it had been around for quite some time.
  • The book of Daniel is written in Hebrew from 1:1 to 2:3, then it switches to Aramaic from 2:4 to 7:28, and then back to Hebrew from 8:1 to the end of the book. The four Dead Sea Scrolls that preserve material from two or three of these sections make the very same transitions from Hebrew to Aramaic and back again. This shows us that the book of Daniel was originally written this way, when Aramaic was the lingua franca of the Near East, during the time of Neo-Babylonian and Medo-Persian Empires.
  • Authors commonly refer to themselves in the third person, as, for instance, Moses does in the Torah, or Pentateuch.
  • Jesus Christ himself, Ezekiel, and the writer of Hebrews, all powerfully testified as to the genuineness of Daniel’s existence, and, additionally, Jesus also testified as to Daniel’s writership of the book (Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:69; Ezekiel 14:14,20; 28:3; Hebrews 11:33-37), when he drew on it (Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11) to predict, “When you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand–” (Matthew 24:15 NIV; Mark 13:14). If the late-date theory of the critics is true, then either Matthew’s reference to “the prophet Daniel” is false, or Jesus himself was fooled by the forgery of the 2nd century BCE pseudonymous writer.
  • The renowned Jewish historian Josephus, who has been assailed by critics for noting that some prophecies in Daniel were fulfilled, testified to the the book of Daniel’s authenticity. He wrote that during Alexander the Great’s campaign against Persia in 332 BCE, he came to Jerusalem. The priests there showed him a copy of the book of Daniel, specifically verses where he was referred to in its prophecies, written 200 years before then. Alexander believed they, in fact, did refer to him, and so he was very kind to the Jews, who were long time friends of Alexander’s enemy, the Persians. This event occurred 160 years before the time when critics claim the book of Daniel was written!

For additional information on this subject, please see:

DANIEL ACCURATELY PREDICTED ANTIOCHUS IV EPIPHANES

32 thoughts on “When Was the Book of Daniel Written?

    1. Thank you for your thoughts. The article has been slightly revised and improved for greater accuracy and readability. However, if you are suggesting that Daniel was written in the 2nd century BCE rather than in the 6th century BCE, the facts do not support your conclusion.

  1. Using BCE (Before Common Era) the Jesus Christ denying dating system kind of taints your article. Either you believe Christ was real and thus measure dates accordingly or you don’t. BCE isthe tool ofthe atheistic globalists. ‍♂️

      1. Please see the response below that was sent to Karl last year.Using BCE/CE rather than BC/AD doesn’t change the dates, nor does it deny Jesus in any way.whatsoever.
        Jesus is just as real no matter which designations are used.
        This BC/AD dating system wasn’t even developed until hundreds of years after Jesus lived and died on earth.
        The Bible counsels against “quarreling over disputable matters” (Romans 14:1 NIV).
        Philippians 1:10 advises Christians to “understand what really matters” (NLT).

  2. We firmly disagree with your assertion that using the BCE/CE terminology somehow disrespects “Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God” (Mark 1:1 NIV). This site is dedicated to proving the existence of Almighty God, and the truth of his Word of communication to humans, the Holy Bible, and we believe every word of it. For example, the gospel of John’s stated purpose [which we believe, and promote],is that “these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name” (John 20:31 NIV). The dating system that is in use today was developed several centuries after Jesus’ death and the completion of the Bible, using Roman numerals, with a starting point of when it was mistakenly thought that Jesus was born, thus January 1, 1 CE, or AD. Roman numerals do not have a zero, so there no zero year was assigned to this dating system. However, Biblically, Jesus’ birth can be approximately dated by using “the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar” [about the year 28-29 CE], when John the Baptist began to preach (Luke 3:1,2). A few months later, “Jesus was baptized” when he “was about thirty years old” (Luke 3:21-23). Working back from this time, would place Jesus’ birth about 2 BCE, possibly in the early fall, because on the night of Jesus’ birth, “there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night” (Luke 2:8 NIV). Therefore, Jesus could not have been born during the winter, because shepherds did not stay out in the fields at night, nor did they have their flocks outside at night, during the winter. AD means “anno domini”, “in the year of our Lord”. This is a misnomer for two good reasons, which are: (1) Jesus was not born on January 1, 1 CE; (2) Jesus did not become “the Messiah” [“the Christ”], or “Lord”, until he was baptized. The BCE/CE terms [“Before our Common Era”, and “Common Era”] have been used for about 400 years, and are more accurate descriptions of the dates. The dates are the same anyway, and using the BCE/CE terms in no way denigrates, or diminishes, Jesus Christ, who is “both Lord and Messiah” (Acts 2:36 NIV).

    1. Oh, forgive me. I thought you were secular scholars who admitted the accuracy of Daniel. I had no idea that Daniel was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. This adds more to the authenticity.

      1. We’re pleased that the article was informative to you. We’re dedicated Christians who work hard to share some of the many archaeological, historical, and textual evidences of the Bible’s authenticity.

  3. Archeological evidence , Carbon dating, AI technology : Verifiable
    Book of Daniel, Gilgamesh, Mesopotamian accounts were written before the Bible came before and that’s the RUB!

  4. As the article points out, there is much verifiable evidence that the Book of Daniel was written in the 6th century BCE, and contains both accurate historical narrative and divine prophecy. Not clear as to exactly what your “rub” is.

  5. What a fascinating subject! I greatly appreciate all the evidence you have provided that the Book of Daniel is not fraudulent. To that end, would you have any counter arguments to this excerpt from Wikipedia’s page on the subject? “But whereas the events leading up to the sacking of the Temple in 167 BC and the immediate aftermath are remarkably accurate, the predicted war between the Syrians and the Egyptians (11:40–43) never took place, and the prophecy that Antiochus would die in Palestine (11:44–45) was inaccurate (he died in Persia). The most probable conclusion is that the account must have been completed near the end of the reign of Antiochus but before his death in December 164 BC, or at least before news of it reached Jerusalem, and the consensus of modern scholarship is accordingly that the book dates to the period 167–163 BC.”

    1. Thanks for your keen interest in God’s Word, the Bible.
      Regarding the Wikipedia assertions, the following notes on Daniel 11:40-45 are helpful:
      “In these concluding verses, the events described no longer correspond to the history of the Maccabean period.”—The New American Bible, Revised Edition
      “Most commentators believe these verses describe the time of the end of history (compare Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3-12: Rev 19:19-21). These verses echo the career of Antiochus IV, but we have no historical record of the events described here. Antiochus was a paradigm for future rulers who set themselves against the God of gods.”—NLT Study Bible
      The Wikipedia article assumes that accurate long-range predictive prophecy is not possible. It appears that Daniel 11:40-45 is a prophecy of events far beyond the Maccabean period. In fact, it clearly states that it is a prophecy of some events of “the time of the end” (Daniel 11:40), and apparently not localized to the Middle East.
      As with other prophesies in Daniel and the rest of the Bible, long-range predictive prophecy is not only possible, but expected from “the God of gods” (Daniel 2:47).
      If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

      1. Thank you for your thoughtful response. It definitely contributes to my limited understanding of the matter. I guess what confuses me is that the book’s author prefaced those verses with “the time of the end” as you said, but then continued employing the same [kings of the north/south] context as if either it was going to be relevant all the way to the end, or he wasn’t really jumping ahead in time, after all. To me, either case would cast doubt on the work’s credibility as prophecy.

        1. You’re welcome. As you no doubt noticed, the “revelation [that] was given to Daniel” “in the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia” [536 BCE] (Daniel 10:1 NAB), is a long-term prophecy dealing with the two eventual successive kingdoms of the empire of Alexander the Great (the “mighty king,” Daniel 11:4 NIV) , which are called by the cryptic geographical names of :”the king of the south” and “the king of the north” (Daniel 11:2-7). The identities of these successive kings change over the course of the long period of time covered by the prophecy. We can now analyze the prophecy of Daniel 11:2-20, and see how accurately it predicted details of these successive kings hundreds of years in advance.
          Daniel 11:21-39 accurately predicts Antiochus IV Epihanes, who ruled about 175-164 BCE. We can look back at the historical details now in the light of the prophecy, and see how it very accurately worked out.
          After verse 39 there is a skip far ahead in time to some events of “the time of the end” (Daniel 11:40) of this world, which apparently are yet in the future. As is the case with other Bible prophecies, the details of the fulfillment do not become clear to us humans until the prophecy is actually fulfilled, or even after the prophecy is fulfilled.
          To illustrate this aspect of prophecy even further — Jesus’ apostles did not understand many of the foretold important details of his life, ministry, death, and resurrection until sometime after the events occurred (John 20:10; Luke 24:44,45).
          “The prophet Daniel” (Matthew 24:15 NIV) was “moved by the holy Spirit [and] spoke under the influence of God” (2 Peter 1:21 NAB) to accurately predict historical details long in advance.

  6. Indeed but Daniel clearly stated in days when this would happen and yet so many put this centuries ahead instead of when it actually happened I believe from reading this article and the book of Daniel was speaking of the end of the age of the old covenant and not the world itself as many assume.

  7. Greg—Indeed but Daniel clearly stated in days when this would happen and yet so many put this centuries ahead instead of when it actually happened
    BA—Thank you for your thoughts. The prophecy of “the king of the north and the king of the south” takes up a number of Bible verses in Daniel 11. However, the prophecy is not stated to occur in “days”, as though it covers a short period of time. The time period runs from the Persian Empire through the Syrian King Antiochus IV Epiphanes, which covers about 350 years, through at least Daniel 11:39.
    Greg—I believe from reading this article and the book of Daniel was speaking of the end of the age of the old covenant and not the world itself as many assume.
    BA–The Old Covenant ended with the death of Christ (Colossians 2:14). Daniel 11:40-45 may have been fulfilled by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, but, more likely, as the NAB note on those verses states, “In these concluding verses, the events described no longer correspond to the Maccabean period”.
    They may refer to “the time of the end” (Daniel 11:40) of the world. At this website, we feel, at this point, it would be presumptuous, or even audacious, for us to state with certainty exactly what events are predicted in those verses.

  8. Dear Bible Authenticity,
    Thank you for this great, comprehensive article. I have a question as it relates to King Nebuchadnezzar. There seems to be no evidence of a departure from his reign for 7 years, someone taking his place, him going mad, and him returning in glory to worship the God of Israel. In fact, I read of some attributing the story of Nebuchadnezzar to Nabonidus – that as this article mentions Nabonidus had some lapses in his being on the throne and (I couldn’t re-find the article I saw this in but also something related to Nabonidus and an exorcism claiming that this was what Daniel was referring to when he said Nebuchadnezzar went mad). If we saw lapses in Nabonidus’s throne shouldn’t we also see that with Nebuchadnezzar? There is certainly evidence of Nebuchadnezzar, but how would you respond to the biblical account being just Jewish legend?

    1. Nabonidus was not king of Babylon until later on. Documented history tells of his spending long periods of time away from his throne in Babylon. But he was an entirely different king from Nebuchadnezzar.
      On the other hand, Nebuchadnezzar is historically documented as the King of Babylon from 605 BCE until 562 BCE.
      Daniel chapter 4 isn’t “just Jewish legend”. Why not?
      It’s part of “All scripture [that] is inspired by God” (2 Timothy 3:16).
      “Ancient kings tried to avoid mentioning their weaknesses or defeats in their monuments and official records. From Nebuchadnezzar’s records, however, we can infer that for a time during his 43 year reign he did not rule. The Bible, however, explains Nebuchadnezzar’ pride and punishment”—Life Application Study Bible not on Daniel 4:34
      In reference to Nebuchadnezzar’s 7 year insanity:
      “This disease, called boanthropy, causes a person to behave like an ox. Several ancient sources lend support to this account, and the king’s annals are notably empty from 582 to 575 BC.”—NLT Study Bible note on Daniel 4:33
      Hope this helps you. Thanks for stopping by.

      1. Thank you for your timely response; this was extremely helpful thank you. How would you respond to the “Prayer of Nabonidus” from the dead sea scrolls mentioning a 7 year insanity and sounding like the biblical account of King Nebuchadnezzar. Certainly this is not canon, but it seems to give credence to the idea that Nabonidus’s mental illness was later prescribed to Nebuchadnezzar.

        I am just curious since I do not see an about us on the website, who makes up this team? Where do you source the evidence for this article?

        As huge of a natural skeptic as I am, I am grateful for your detail in these article resources.

        Riley

        1. Nabonidus was the father of king Belshazzar of Babylon, with whom he ruled as coregent for at least several years. A Qumran scroll from about 50 BCE, commonly called The Prayer of Nabonidus (PN), or 4QprNab, written in Aramaic, is an Apocryphal account of a healing of Nabonidus that may be based loosely on Daniel 4. This text tells us that king Nabonidus was inflicted with a physical ailment for seven years, until a Jewish exorcist pardoned his sins. This Jewish man then encouraged Nabonidus to document the event and to give praise to God, who pardoned him. In the final section of the scroll Nabonidus declared that his prior supplications to the gods of the world concerning his ailment had gone unanswered.

          The scroll suggests that Nabonidus journeyed to Tema, Arabia, and remained there for a number of years. This detail is accurate. Apart from that, however, there is little reason to regard The Prayer of Nabonidus as historical. It appears that the story is possibly based on the Biblical account of Nebuchadnezzar.

          There are some important differences. First, the kings were different: Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar in Daniel and Nabonidus in PN. Second, the maladies are different: Nebuchadnezzar’s apparent insanity or demonic oppression and Nabonidus’s skin ailment. Third, Daniel warned Nebuchadnezzar before God judged him, whereas the Jewish diviner told Nabonidus to give God glory after God had healed him. Fourth, Nabonidus confessed his worship of false gods for seven years, while Nebuchadnezzar’s pride led to his humiliation before God restored him. 

          The PN is the stuff of legend. The true God, Yahweh, doesn’t operate through exorcists. The Hebrew scripture canon closed after the books Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther and Malachi were written before 400 BCE, long before the apocryphal PN was written.

          Unlike the very important inspired book of Daniel, the PN is almost all fiction, essentially worthless. According to the Bible, we’re told to “pay no attention to Jewish myths” (Titus 1:14 NIV), such as the PN.

  9. Eric – MARK 2 , “ Sabbath was made for humans, not humans for the Sabbath”. — “ when Abiathar was the high priest “ and ate the show bread, which was only for the priests to eat.

    Old Testament passage that Jesus is citing ( 1 Samuel. 21:1-6, it turns out that David did this not when Abiathar was the high priest, but in fact, when Abiathar’s father Ahimelech was.

    Consensus of modern scholarship on when Book of Daniel was actually written… ( Scholars also of ancient languages Hebrew, Aramaic….)

    British Museum has in cuneiform Gilgamesh, flood account centuries before Noah’s account & Mesopotamian accounts of Jacob’s ladder centuries before the account in Genesis and these are NOT oral accounts

    I’m into originals. Hope your team can give me your researched responses

    [ Gospels ] especially
    We don’t have the originals, we don’t have first copies of the originals.We don’t even have copies of the copies of the originals. What we have our copies made later- much later. In most cases, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another , in many thousands of places ( GREEK SCHOLARS )

    1. Eric – MARK 2 , “ Sabbath was made for humans, not humans for the Sabbath”. — “ when Abiathar was the high priest “ and ate the show bread, which was only for the priests to eat.

      Old Testament passage that Jesus is citing ( 1 Samuel. 21:1-6, it turns out that David did this not when Abiathar was the high priest, but in fact, when Abiathar’s father Ahimelech was.

      BA—“how he entered the house of God around the time of Abiathar the high priest” (Mark 2:26 LSB). Notice how the LSB renders the Hebrew text as “around the time of Abiathar the high priest”. This is correct because Abiathar was alive then, and shortly after became the high priest. Abiathar was certainly alive when this incident took place, and may have even been present when the incident occurred. A fairly short time after David received the showbread from Ahimelech at Nob (1 Samuel 21:1-6), all the priests at Nob were murdered, except Abiathar, who escaped and became the high priest (1 Samuel 22:11-23:6. 

      Erik—Consensus of modern scholarship on when Book of Daniel was actually written… ( Scholars also of ancient languages Hebrew, Aramaic….)

      BA—Modern “scholars” opinions notwithstanding, the weight of provable evidence and facts indicates the prophet Daniel himself wrote the book and completed it by around 535 BCE (as noted in the article).

      Erik—British Museum has in cuneiform Gilgamesh, flood account centuries before Noah’s account

      BA—Assuming a later date for the Biblical composition, some scholars have suggested that Mesopotamian accounts may have served as a prototype for the narrative in Genesis. But most researchers believe that the Biblical account is not simply a modification of the Mesopotamian ancient flood stories, but one of several versions of a common story. The differences can be attributed to the special revelation God gave the Biblical authors, including Moses, the writer of Genesis, by which he made known his plan of redemption. This makes the Bible unique. The other versions, or ancient flood stories, provide extra-biblical confirmation of the story of a great flood rather than demonstrating, as some have suggested, that the Biblical account is a myth. The other ancient flood stories help to confirm the Biblical account as genuine, in fact, as “the word of the Lord” (1 Peter 1:25).

      See the article on this website: “Ancient Flood Stories – Is Genesis One of Many?”.

      Erik— & Mesopotamian accounts of Jacob’s ladder centuries before the account in Genesis and these are NOT oral accounts

      BA—We’re not familiar with any such extra-Biblical documents of Jacob’s ladder.

      Erik—I’m into originals. Hope your team can give me your researched responses

      [ Gospels ] especially
      We don’t have the originals, we don’t have first copies of the originals.We don’t even have copies of the copies of the originals. What we have our copies made later- much later. In most cases, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another , in many thousands of places ( GREEK SCHOLARS )

      BA—Not entirely true. See the article, “Ancient Bible Manuscript Detail Comparisons” on this website, and we think you’ll see how the Bible’s authenticity trumps all others.

      Below are excerpts from articles on this website about when two Bible books were written, Matthew and John.

      Carsten Peter Thiede, an expert in papyrology, by comparison with a Greek text, called the Oxyrhynchus Papri, dated 66 CE,  found in Egypt,  and with a leather Qumran Dead Sea Scroll dated to about the same time, has been able to paleographically date three fragments of Matthew 26 (called the Magdalen Papyrus) to about the same time, or even a little earlier. Since Matthew’s original manuscript would have been written some time earlier, this puts the Magdalen fragments within about 25 years of Mathew’s original. This paleographical dating of the Oxyrhynchus Papri of Matthew’s Gospel, helps us to estimate the date of the original writing of Matthew’s Gospel as being possibly as early as the late 30’s, or early 40’s CE.

      Some have strongly asserted that the Gospel of John was written as late the middle of the second century. However, the discovery of the Rylands Papyrus 457 (P52) (a papyrus fragment of John 18:31-33,37,38), paleographically dated to about 125-135 CE, has led most scholars back to the traditional date of the 90’s CE as the time period of the writing of John’s Gospel. Why? Because several decades would have been required between the time of the original writing, likely in Ephesus (Asia Minor, today Turkey), and its being copied and circulated as far south as Egypt. Additionally, discoveries of the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran, by improving understanding of Palestine in the first century, have confirmed the genuineness of the Jewish background and thought patterns evidenced in the book. These facts fit in well with the evidence presented above that the apostle John wrote the 4th gospel in the 90’s CE.

  10. From Eric, Thanks, I’m reading carefully what you had written me. Ancient Manuscripts: Unlocking the Past, posted May 01, 2025 is interesting on Textual Criticism. MY Google Mesh says: On Website Aaron Project. Com, they say, I would object to describing all of them as errors. There are really about 400,000 give or take, variations among all the manuscripts of the New Testament.”

    In most instances, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another, in many thousands of places. These copies differ from one another in so many places that we don’t even know how many differences there are. POSSIBLY, it is easiest to put it in comparative terms: there are more differences among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.

    Most of these comparisons are completely immaterial and insignificant.

    How many inconsistencies are there in the New Testament? Do you insist that God inspired the very words of scripture?

    My Google Mesh when prompted doles out many sources, and not just Wikipedia material from Church of Latter Day Saints to bibleauthenticity.com

    Inspired directly by God or passed down orally, eventually , copied, written by scribes in antiquity. Even so, what is one to make of all these differences?( (Gospels written 40 to 90 years after death of Christ )

    1. Eric—From Eric, Thanks, I’m reading carefully what you had written me. Ancient Manuscripts: Unlocking the Past, posted May 01, 2025 is interesting on Textual Criticism. MY Google Mesh says: On Website Aaron Project. Com, they say, I would object to describing all of them as errors. There are really about 400,000 give or take, variations among all the manuscripts of the New Testament.”

      In most instances, they are copies made many centuries later. And these copies all differ from one another, in many thousands of places. These copies differ from one another in so many places that we don’t even know how many differences there are. POSSIBLY, it is easiest to put it in comparative terms: there are more differences among our manuscripts than there are words in the New Testament.

      BA—Nothing to worry about, Eric. There are factual answers to all of your questions. Thanks for your interest in the authenticity of God’s word, the Bible.
      With many thousands of ancient manuscripts over a period from about 125 CE until the 1500’s, there are a few differences, of course, but none are significant.

      —————————–

      The following is excerpted from the article, “The Rylands Papyrus Dated To 125-135 CE”, on this website:

      The Rylands Papyrus 457 (P52) is the oldest copy yet discovered of any portion of the New Testament, having been paleographically dated back to the first half of the second century CE, about 125-135 CE  A tiny fragment of a codex (a leaf-form text, like a modern book, in contrast to a scroll) of the Gospel of John, it contains parts of John 18:31-33 on one side and John 18:37-38 on the other side. It was acquired in Egypt in 1920 and is now in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England.

      Despite its tiny size (less than 3.5 in. [9 cm] from top to bottom), this papyrus fragment is highly significant. It testifies that by the first half of the second century the Gospel of John was already being read in Egypt, far from Ephesus in Asia Minor, the most likely place of its composition by the apostle John. It seems unlikely that John’s Gospel could have been composed any later than the end of the first century, the late 90’s, since it would have taken time for it to have been accepted and dis­seminated so far from its place of origin. The manuscript, of which P52 is a fragment, must have been copied within 25 to 30 years of the composition of the Gospel itself. It gives us strong evidence that John’s gospel was written by the apostle John prior to the end of the first century. John’s gospel itself gives us strong clues that he wrote it himself (John 19:35; 20:30,31; 21:24).

      The importance of this tiny manuscript fragment is noted below:

      “Small therefore as it is, it suffices to prove that prove that a manuscript of this Gospel was circulating, presumably in provincial Egypt where it was found, about the period A. D. 130-150.  Allowing even a minimum time for the circulation of the work from its place of origin, this would throw back the date of composition so near the traditional date in the last decade of the first century that there is no longer any reason to question the validity of the tradition”—The Bible and Modern Scholarship, 1949, page 21, by Sir Frederick Kenyon

      If we take into account that in some pieces of Greek or Latin literature the oldest manu­script available is dated to over a thousand years after the composition of the original text, that is in reality an extremely short period of time. An enormous number of Greek New Testament texts exist, and they give us good reason to be confident that the New Testament we read today accurately reflects what was in the original manu­scripts.

      Excerpts from the article, “The Fixed New Testament Text – A Huge Problem for Trinitarianism!”, on this website, are as follows:

      (2) The Bible’s Old Testament canon closed about 400 BCE, saying nothing about any Trinity, or Trinitarian ideas..

      (3) The Bible’s New Testament canon closed about 100 CE, also lacking any mention of any Trinity, or Trinitarian ideas.

      (4) The Greek New Testament Master Refined Text became even more strongly fixed than ever during the latter part of the 20th century, with the publication of the Nestle-Aland (N-A) 26th Edition (now in its 28th Edition) and the United Bible Societies’ (UBS) 3rd Edition (now in its 5th Edition). These two independently done Greek Texts are now identical. They are based upon collation and critical anaylsis of the 5,800 extant New Testament manuscripts, some of which are dated to the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries CE.

      (5) The integrity of the New Testament (NT) Text we have today is so far greater than anything else from ancient times that there is nothing anywhere close to it in textual integrity. This is what we would expect from “the word of God” (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

      (6) It can truly be said of Christianity that it is a textually based religion. It is “written down,” “with paper and ink” (John 21:25; 2 John 14 NLT). The popular myth that the text of the Bible has been changed through handwritten copying and recopying through the centuries is unsupported by the facts.

      (7) It was accurately predicted that “men will come forward perverting the truth” (Acts 20:30 NAB). However, the fixed Biblical text has served as a powerful safeguard against doctrinal changes.

      ——————————————————————————

      Excerpts from the article, “What Is Textual Criticism? Has the Bible Been Changed?”, on this website, follow:

      “All people are like grass, and all their glory is like that of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the Lord endures forever” (1 Peter 1:24,25 NIV). In this text, the thought is conveyed that “the Word of the Lord endures forever”, which implies that the scriptures would be faithfully preserved over time.

      Any book copied by hand is likely to contain errors. Not surprisingly, there are copyists’ errors (called textual or scribal errors) in ancient Biblical manuscripts. The original copies of the books were lost long ago. Thus, our sources for the Biblical ma­terials are limited to handwritten copies (of copies) of the originals. We do also have access to copies of ancient translations of the Bible into other languages, as well as citations of the Bible by early rab­bis and church fathers. Thus He­brew and Greek manuscripts of the Bible, together with early translations and citations of Scrip­ture, witness to the correct reading of a particular text.

      How did scribal errors arise? Poor memory, impaired judgment, mishearing and errors of sight or misunderstanding often caused the best-intentioned scribes to omit, substitute or repeat letters or entire words. Sometimes scribes made matters worse when they deliberately altered the text in an attempt to rectify something they perceived as a problem (deliberate alterations are probably very rare, however). In time, the result was a series of accidental corruptions or intended improvements that de­parted from the original text.

      “Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished” (Matthew 5:18 HCSB). Jesus says here that even the smallest details from God’s word will be preserved.

      Textual criticism is the at­tempt to restore the Biblical au­thors’ original words by comparing and contrasting the various copies and translations of the Bible. Here “criticism” does not mean “finding fault with” but “evaluating” the existing copies of the text. Signifi­cantly, while textual errors do exist among the ancient Biblical witnesses, they do not destroy the Bible’s credibility or message. Just as an alert reader can understand a book or newspaper article that has typographical errors in it, so too God’s Word is able to speak for itself in spite of the minor corruptions that have arisen through scribal transmission. The vast majority of the Biblical text is certain, and where varia­tions do occur among existing copies, the original wording can usu­ally be determined with a good degree of certainty by a thorough acquaintance with the available manuscripts. Most modern trans­lations use footnotes to let readers know where the text is difficult or where scribal errors may exist.

      An example of a textual prob­lem is found in the last sentence of Isaiah 51:19. The New American Standard Bible translates the ques­tion “How shall I comfort you?” while the NIV words it “Who can console you?” (emphasis added for both translations). These different renderings reflect a difference of opinion over which manuscripts preserve the best reading. The NIV follows a reading that is found in a Hebrew manuscript from the Dead Sea Scrolls. This transla­tion is also supported by the Greek (Septuagint), Latin (Vulgate) and Syriac (Peshitta) translations of the Old Testament. On the other hand, the standard edition of the Hebrew Old Testament (the Masoretic Text) reads “How can I com­fort you?”and was followed by the NASB translators.

      “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” (Matthew 24:35 NIV). Jesus uses hyperbole’ to show that God will not allow his word, especially the scriptures, to fade, or “pass away”. This would include preventing any significant changes.

      The above example of Isaiah 51:19 also makes the point that virtually all scribal ques­tions involve minor points in the text. We have good reason to be confident that the translations now available faithfully, albeit never perfectly, reflect what the prophets and other Biblical authors originally wrote. The presence of scribal errors is not a reason to consider the Bible untrustworthy, because refined Hebrew-Aramaic, and Koine’ Greek Master Texts use a compilation and collation of thousands of ancient manuscripts to derive a Biblical text that faithfully represents the originals.

      In fact, scribal errors are actually one of the many proofs that the Bible is not a work of fiction, nor is it the a result of collusion among conspirators to make it seem to be the word of God , when it actually is of human origin. New Testament Greek scholars consider the current Master Text to be 99.5% pure. The other 0.5% questionable text is of inconsequential matters, primarily spelling and syntax differences.

      The two most prominent New Testament Refined Master Texts, the Nestle-Aland (N-A) 28th edition, and the United Bible Societies (UBS( 5th edition, have had independent teams of scholars working on them for many years now. By the time of about the N-A 26th edition and the UBS 3rd edition, the two texts were identical except for footnotes. No other work from the ancient world has a text with such a high degree of integrity.

      God said he would preserve his word, and he has!

      Eric— Do you insist that God inspired the very words of scripture?

      BA—Yes, the originals were. “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching” (2 Timothy 3:16 LSB margin).
      However, no copies are, but we can be assured that Almighty God, who created and sustains the universe (Genesis 1:1; Isaiah 40:26; 42:5), and the power to accurately preserve his word in written form (1 Peter 1:24,25).

      Eric—Inspired directly by God or passed down orally, eventually , copied, written by scribes in antiquity.

      BA—Yes, all that, but what was originally written in Bible was 100% true, because it was “inspired by God” (2 Timothy 3:16), and preserved accurately by God down to this day (1 Peter 1:24,25)

      Eric—Even so, what is one to make of all these differences?( (Gospels written 40 to 90 years after death of Christ )

      BA—Our answers above answer this to a large degree. The gospel of Matthew was written within 15 years or less of Jesus’ death, and has an extant manuscript dated to about 35 or so after Jesus’ death. (See our last response to you.)

  11. From Eric- Good points & explanations, but if one wants to insist that God inspired the very words of scripture, what would be the point if we don’t have the very words of scripture? I believe we simply cannot be sure that we have reconstructed the original text accurately. It’s a bit hard to know what the words of the Bible mean if we don’t even know what the words are!
    When I prompt Google Mesh, and ask to list inconsistencies in Gospels, it has given many examples of the inconsistencies and there are more than a handful. There is no need to list them all, but with AI, etc. (tools) would list them easily.
    It seems Gospels, all of them appear to have been circulated by word of mouth among Christian converts throughout the Mediterranean world.
    The authorship of the Gospels is the evidence that they appear to preserve stories that had been in circulation for a long period of time.This observation certainly applies to narratives for which NO eyewitnesses were evidently present.For example, if Pilate and Jesus were alone at the trial in John 18:28-19:16 and Jesus was immediately executed afterward, who told the Fourth Evangelist what Jesus actually said? An early Christian must have come up with words that seemed appropriate to the occasion..The same principle applies to the other accounts of the Gospels as well.All of them appear to have circulated by word of mouth among Christian converts throughout the Mediterranean world. ( as I’ve written again for emphasis)
    And yes, there are a slew of inconsistencies in passages of Gospels which I’m sure you are aware of. And by word of mouth as we know; words and stories change, not only daily, but even by minutes in our advancing technological world

    Thanks again
    Eric

    1. From Eric- Good points & explanations, but if one wants to insist that God inspired the very words of scripture, what would be the point if we don’t have the very words of scripture? I believe we simply cannot be sure that we have reconstructed the original text accurately. It’s a bit hard to know what the words of the Bible mean if we don’t even know what the words are!

      BA—Eric, keep up your good research, and quest for the truth of these matters! Below is a large excerpt from the article,
      What Is Textual Criticism . . . “, on this website.
      It is true, we don’t have the originals, and sometimes we hear this objection as to the validity of the Biblical text. Why don’t we have the originals? They were written on perishable materials, and handmade copies were meticulously and accurately made and distributed.

      If we had the originals and no copies, suppose one or more of the originals was lost, destroyed, stolen, or deviously, but cleverly altered? Then what?

      If we had the originals written by Moses, David, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, etc., they may likely would have become idols, or objects of worship, the way “the bronze serpent . . . Nehushtan” was (2 Kings 18:4 LSB).

      The New Testament books were written in various places and quickly copied and distributed all over the Roman Empire, long before there was any controlling body with the power to gather up these copies and have them deliberately altered. The very rapid copying and distribution also made it impossible for any authority to gather up and alter all the copies to make them say the same thing. By the time such powerful authority in or over Christianity emerged in the 4th century, extremely valuable manuscripts that are extant today, were long since buried in the sands of Egypt or tucked away in obscure places in Palestine and the Roman Empire.

      So not having the originals solves these potential problems, rendering having the originals unnecessary, but it does mean that we have textual variants among the thousands of ancient Biblical manuscripts.

      What About the Many Thousands of Textual Variants?

      Any book copied by hand thousands of times over a period of a thousand plus years is likely to contain errors. The term textual variant derives from this fact. Thus, our sources for the Biblical ma­terials are limited to handwritten copies (of copies) of the originals. We do also have access to copies of ancient translations of the Bible into other languages, as well as citations of the Bible by early rab­bis and church fathers. Thus He­brew and Greek manuscripts of the Bible, together with early translations and citations of Scrip­ture, witness to the correct reading of a particular text.

      How did scribal errors arise? Poor memory, impaired judgment, mishearing and errors of sight or misunderstanding often caused the best-intentioned scribes to omit, substitute or repeat letters or entire words. Sometimes scribes made matters worse when they deliberately altered the text in an attempt to rectify something they perceived as a problem (deliberate alterations are probably very rare, however). In time, the result was a series of accidental corruptions or intended “improvements” that de­parted from the original text.

      Is this a problem? No. Why not?

      In fact, scribal errors are actually one of the many proofs that the Bible is not a work of fiction, nor is it the a result of collusion among conspirators to make it seem to be the word of God , when it actually is of human origin. Once variants appeared among the many copies of the Bible, they didn’t just go away. They were copied and recopied many times. But it also means that we still have the original readings of the New Testament texts.

      How can we sure of this? How do we know what the original reading was?

      What is Textual Criticism?

      Textual criticism is the at­tempt to restore the Biblical au­thors’ original words by comparing and contrasting the various copies and translations of the Bible. Here “criticism” does not mean “finding fault with”, but “evaluating” the existing copies of the text. Signifi­cantly, while textual errors do exist among the ancient Biblical witnesses, they do not destroy the Bible’s credibility or message. Just as an alert reader can understand a book or newspaper article that has typographical errors in it, so too God’s Word is able to speak for itself in spite of the minor corruptions that have arisen through scribal transmission. The vast majority of the Biblical text is certain, and where varia­tions do occur among existing copies, the original wording can usu­ally be determined with a good degree of certainty by a thorough acquaintance with the available manuscripts. Most modern trans­lations use footnotes to let readers know where the text is difficult or where scribal errors may exist.

      How Does Textual Criticism Work?

      A simple modern day hypothetical example can help to understand the nature of Textual Criticism.  Suppose a school teacher taught 200 students each day, and required all of them one day to copy an essay of about 300 words using pen and paper. When they were collected, collated, and comparatively analyzed, there likely would be a few variations. Suppose 198 wrote a word identically and 2 of the copies of this word were different. A grader who analyzed this without even having the original would know that the 198 had the word correct, while 2 were mistaken.

      How does Textual Criticism work regarding the Bible? The Old Testament (OT) has about 1700 ancient manuscripts of the original Hebrew-Aramaic Scripture text, and the New Testament (NT) has about 5,800 ancient manuscripts in the original Koine’ Greek text. Both the OT and the NT have thousands of ancient manuscripts in other languages. The vast majority of these ancient manuscripts are fragmentary, or partial, with only a few being complete or fairly complete.

      All extant manuscripts are graded as to their value by Biblical language and textual expert scholars. Greater weight is generally given to the older manuscripts, the older, the greater the value. Likewise, with the languages, greater weight is usually given to the original languages, rather than to the translated languages. The extant manuscripts are collated, and compared, revealing variants. These expert scholars then decide on the composition of Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Master Texts, and also alternates, and explanatory footnotes.

      The presence of scribal errors is not a reason to consider the Bible untrustworthy, because refined Hebrew-Aramaic, and Koine’ Greek Master Texts use a compilation and collation of thousands of ancient manuscripts to derive a Biblical text that faithfully represents the originals.

      The two most prominent New Testament Refined Master Texts, the Nestle-Aland (N-A) 28th edition, and the United Bible Societies (UBS( 5th edition, have had independent teams of scholars working on them for many years now. By the time of about the N-A 26th edition and the UBS 3rd edition, the two texts were identical except for footnotes. No other work from the ancient world has a text with such a high degree of integrity.

      New Testament Greek scholars consider the current Master Text to be 99.5% pure. The other 0.5% questionable text is of inconsequential matters, primarily spelling and syntax differences.

      How Bible Translators Use the Results of Textual Criticism

      Bible Translators make use of these Master Texts in translating the scriptures into modern languages, such as English, Spanish, French, Japanese, Chinese, etc.

      An example of a textual prob­lem is found in the last sentence of Isaiah 51:19. The New American Standard Bible translates the ques­tion “How shall I comfort you?” while the NIV words it “Who can console you?” (emphasis added for both translations). These different renderings reflect a difference of opinion over which manuscripts preserve the best reading. The NIV follows a reading that is found in a Hebrew manuscript from the Dead Sea Scrolls. This transla­tion is also supported by the Greek (Septuagint), Latin (Vulgate) and Syriac (Peshitta) translations of the Old Testament. On the other hand, the standard edition of the Hebrew Old Testament (the Masoretic Text) reads “How can I com­fort you?”and was followed by the NASB translators.

      The above example of Isaiah 51:19 also makes the point that virtually all scribal ques­tions involve minor points in the text. We have good reason to be confident that the translations now available faithfully, albeit never perfectly, reflect what the prophets and other Biblical authors originally wrote. The presence of scribal errors is not a reason to consider the Bible untrustworthy, because refined Hebrew-Aramaic, and Koine’ Greek Master Texts use a compilation and collation of thousands of ancient manuscripts to derive a Biblical text that faithfully represents the originals.

      Eric—The authorship of the Gospels is the evidence that they appear to preserve stories that had been in circulation for a long period of time.This observation certainly applies to narratives for which NO eyewitnesses were evidently present.For example, if Pilate and Jesus were alone at the trial in John 18:28-19:16 and Jesus was immediately executed afterward, who told the Fourth Evangelist what Jesus actually said? An early Christian must have come up with words that seemed appropriate to the occasion..The same principle applies to the other accounts of the Gospels as well.All of them appear to have circulated by word of mouth among Christian converts throughout the Mediterranean world.

      BA—Yes, there some things in the gospels and other parts of the Bible, for which there no witnesses. Critics, of corse, claim these accounts of legend and folklore, etc.
      However, since “all Scripture is inspired by God and isn useful”, “profitable” (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB; LSB). Therefore, we can be sure it is 100% accurate.
      Over time, historical facts have proven this to be the case. Many, many times, skeptics and critics have been silenced as evidence has been uncovered that has proven the Bible true and accurate, and its detractors wrong.

  12. Eric, Thanks, ( 2 Timothy 3:16 ) and Moody BIBLE.ORG. “ used human authors to write what he revealed in the Bible.” says my Google Mesh.
    Hmm. I’ve just read from various sources about The Beginnings of Christian Scripture and in it some of the certain groups who had had different arguments on how certain Gospels might be accepted. Im thinking the Bible is NOT inspired by God, that it is a very human book.( there are a handful of Gospels that were not accepted into the Cannon) Would you say that those Gospels that were NOT accepted into the Cannon were INSPIRED by God?
    ( Against Heresies 3.11.7 ) “ it is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout the world, and the pillar and ground of the Church is the Gospel…it is fitting that she should have four pillars.
    In other words, four corners of the earth, four winds, four pillars—- and necessarily, then, four Gospels.
    What about the GLARING inconsistencies in the Gospels? You must be aware of them and some, impossible to rationalize.One can not doubt that! Listen to Google Mesh & AI dole them out. Our technology keeps advancing which is useful in many ways.
    The decisions about which books should finally be considered canonical were not automatic or problem- free; the debates were long and drawn out, and sometimes harsh.
    Many Christians today may think that the cannon of the New Testament simply appeared on the scene one day, soon after the death of Jesus, but nothing could be farther from the truth.
    Fun researching!

    Thanks again for your insightful feedback

    1. Eric, Thanks, ( 2 Timothy 3:16 ) and Moody BIBLE.ORG. “ used human authors to write what he revealed in the Bible.” says my Google Mesh.
      Hmm. I’ve just read from various sources about The Beginnings of Christian Scripture and in it some of the certain groups who had had different arguments on how certain Gospels might be accepted. Im thinking the Bible is NOT inspired by God, that it is a very human book.( there are a handful of Gospels that were not accepted into the Cannon) Would you say that those Gospels that were NOT accepted into the Cannon were INSPIRED by God?

      BA— No other Gospels or other writings were inspired by God. The following in italics is excerpted from the article, “Evidence of Early New Testament Canon by 100 CE”, on this website:

      “We ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us – whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter – asserting that the day of the Lord has come. Don’t let anyone deceive you” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). This is just one of many proofs that there were other known supposed “Christian” writings circulating even as early as the mid-first century. Some of these purported to be written by church leaders, such as the apostles. Christians were warned about these, as shown here, as early as the 50’s.

      Additional proof of the early canonical acceptance is that in 96 CE, Clement of Rome quoted the sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), and treated it as scripture. By 110 CE, Ignatius of Antioch, an associate of the apostle John, said the Gospels were Scripture.

      No other books other than the 27 in the NT canon were ever seriously considered to be canonical. Books, such as the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Judas, were written long after the apostles, and their teachings did not match the OT or NT canonical teachings. Others, such as the Shepherd of Hermas, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Epistle of 1 Clement, and the Didache, were rejected as canonical simply because of the distance in time from the apostles and the apostolic age.

      Eric—( Against Heresies 3.11.7 ) “ it is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout the world, and the pillar and ground of the Church is the Gospel…it is fitting that she should have four pillars.
      In other words, four corners of the earth, four winds, four pillars—- and necessarily, then, four Gospels.

      BA—The ideas expressed in that quote are simply whimsical fanatasizing.

      Eric—What about the GLARING inconsistencies in the Gospels? You must be aware of them and some, impossible to rationalize. One can not doubt that! Listen to Google Mesh & AI dole them out. Our technology keeps advancing which is useful in many ways.

      BA—None of these so-called “GLARING inconsistencies”, or “contradictions”, in the different accounts are really contradictions. They can easily be explained by carefully examining the evidence in the Gospels and 1 Corinthians. The accounts mesh together to tell one unified account of “the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.” (Mark 1:1 NASB) Even the critics, by accusing the accounts of contradictions, are inadvertently admitting their independence rather than their collusion. The critics thus help to defeat their own case by so doing.

      There are a number of articles on this website that discuss such “GLARING inconsistencies”, or contradictions. You can find that several ways, but one is by putting “gospels contradict” in the search bar of the top right area of the home page.

      Eric—The decisions about which books should finally be considered canonical were not automatic or problem- free; the debates were long and drawn out, and sometimes harsh.

      BA—The following italics  is excerpted from the article, “Evidence of Early New Testament Canon by 100 CE”, on this website:

      Although it is popular to do so, we should not measure the existence of the New Testament (NT) canon (authoritative, or inspired, books) just by the existence of lists, which came into being somewhat later than the NT canon’s coming into existence. When we examine the way the NT books were viewed and used in the very early days of Christianity, we can determine the de facto existence of a functioning canon by about 100 CE.

      The views expressed here are admittedly a little different than the traditional, or orthodox, view of how the New Testament canon, in particular, and the Bible as a whole, came into acceptance. The views presented here actually stand in stark contrast to modern-day populist scholars, like the agnostic Bart Ehrman.

      “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 16:17). The NT canon was not revealed by humans, but by God.

      The books of the Bible did not become the Word of God because people decided it to be so. A book became canonical if it was inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16,17; 2 Peter 1:20,21). Inspiration by God, and not humanly contrived lists, determines canonization.

      “That by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit” (Ephesians 3:3-5). Canonical books (inspired books of the Bible), prophecy, and revelation were revealed by the holy Spirt, not man-made councils.

      The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the Bible canon. However, the NT canon was settled long before then –  not by any council’s decision, but by the same holy Spirit that inspired the Bible in the first place (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21).

      “And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe.” (1 Thessalonians 2:13) The NT canon was accepted as the word of God by the early church, shortly after each book was written, which was long before the RCC came into existence in the 4th century.

      There is no evidence that any book in our canon today gradually gained acceptance over time. There were no stages of acceptance for each individual canonical book.

      “Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people ” (Jude 3). This body of truth, or faith, contained in the New Testament, was delivered “once for all” time, being completed prior to 100 CE, according to the evidence.

      “Just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which is ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:15,16). This gives scriptural status to all 14 of Paul’s letters, by placing them as having equal status with the Hebrew Scriptures. 

      Eric—Many Christians today may think that the cannon of the New Testament simply appeared on the scene one day, soon after the death of Jesus, but nothing could be farther from the truth.
      Fun researching!

      BA—True, but see above just quoted excerpt.

      Eric—Thanks again for your insightful feedback

      BA—We’re happy to do so. That’s what we’re here for. Keep up your quest for the truth!

  13. Thanks. You wrote “ The ideas expressed in that quote are simply whimsical fantasizing.” — about ( Against Heresies3.11.7) Interesting how you put it. I’m thinking others would give many different statements .

    Your response and any appropriate logical deductions, I hereby defer to you the following 1-6
    Thanks.

    1. A.I. created !- on what I heard about the inconsistencies just in the Gospels and some are not in the realm of JUST splitting hairs. It’s there ! and I who have 5 languages under my belt, including remote world traveling experiences in fascinating cultures.
    2. There are a plethora of doctrines from so many different churches that they sometimes use verses to defend their doctrines. It’s pervasive, even when I was in Xian, China, at the end of the the Silk Road, Nestorian Christians, who had come from Asia Minor and their (what some might say ) peculiar beliefs.
    3. Second half of the fourth century, nearly 300 years after the books of the New Testament had themselves been written, bishop of Alexandria , wrote his annual pastoral letter to the Egyptian churches under his jurisdiction, and in it he included advice concerning which books should be read as scripture in the churches. Alexandria did not settle the matter. Debates continued for decades , even centuries…. Bart Ehrman on Google Mesh (since You had mentioned Bart, which my Google Mesh states when prompted, “ Bart is an .. he has written and edited 30 books, including.. he has also authored 3 NYT’s best seller.
    Astounding about his credentials, Yale , Greek background and it says he became a Christian at 17 ..born again experience in high school… Moody…evangelical days at Wheaton 17: , etc… passionate to study theology, etc… I’m paraphrasing a lot here
    4. Genealogy in Book of Matthew? ( scribed copy wrong)
    5. Bart states .. Bible was a human book from beginning to end
    6 Again, “ The scholarly world would be a happier place if all authors had readers such as these.” He gives gratitude to four keen and careful scholars… interesting stuff. Our technology…and later an A.I BIBLE ( in the works)

    1. Eric— Thanks. You wrote “ The ideas expressed in that quote are simply whimsical fantasizing.” — about ( Against Heresies3.11.7) Interesting how you put it. I’m thinking others would give many different statements .

      BA—Yes, this website acknowledges that the views expressed here are not shared by all.

      Your response and any appropriate logical deductions, I hereby defer to you the following 1-6
      Thanks.

      1. A.I. created !- on what I heard about the inconsistencies just in the Gospels and some are not in the realm of JUST splitting hairs. It’s there ! and I who have 5 languages under my belt, including remote world traveling experiences in fascinating cultures.
      2. There are a plethora of doctrines from so many different churches that they sometimes use verses to defend their doctrines. It’s pervasive, even when I was in Xian, China, at the end of the the Silk Road, Nestorian Christians, who had come from Asia Minor and their (what some might say ) peculiar beliefs.

      BA—The New Testament acknowledges “different doctrine” would be taught, and warns against such.
      “If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words—those of our Lord Jesus Christ—and with the doctrine conforming to godliness” (1 Timothy 6:3 Legacy Standard Bible).

      This website adheres to “sound doctrine” (2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9), as far as we know that “the truth” of “the word of God” (John 17:17; 1 Thessalonians 2:13). Sticking to, and promoting, “the truth” isn’t always popular, we realize, and it never has been (Galatians 4:16).

      Eric—3. Second half of the fourth century, nearly 300 years after the books of the New Testament had themselves been written, bishop of Alexandria , wrote his annual pastoral letter to the Egyptian churches under his jurisdiction, and in it he included advice concerning which books should be read as scripture in the churches. Alexandria did not settle the matter. Debates continued for decades , even centuries….

      BA—Eric, that’s the popular “urban legend” these days. However, the facts debunk the popular spin.

      The following is excerpted from the article, “The Old Testament Canon of Books” on this website:

      While the Hebrew Scripture canon was closed by circa 400 BCE, the earliest documented proof of the existence of what we today call the Old Testament canon of books is from the apocryphal book called Ecclesiasticus, or The Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach, or simply Sirach, which was written about 180 BCE:

      “Many great teachings have been given to us through the Law and the Prophets and the other books that followed them . . . my grandfather Jesus, who had devoted himself especially to the reading of the Law and the Prophets and the other books of our ancestors” (Prologue to Ecclesiasticus NRSV). We notice that the books of the Hebrew Scriptures are divided into three sections, the same three sections that Jesus mentioned: “The Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms” (Luke 24:44 NIV). The writer of Ecclesiasticus considered the Hebrew scripture canon closed by his grandfather’s day which would have been in the 200’s BCE.

      We have seen that the Jews identified, collected, and preserved the sacred writings as a matter of course. Next we must ask if or when they believed the production of sacred writings had ceased. Josephus is helpful for elucidating this matter. He tells us ( Against Apion 1.37-43) that the Jews widely recognized that the succession of the prophets ended in the time of Artaxerxes, when Latter Prophets such as Haggai and Malachi fell silent and left no successors. Hence, says Josephus, books written after about 400 BCE were not regarded as Scripture, even if they were valuable on other terms. In 164 BCE Judas Maccabaeus reconsolidated the Scriptures in the temple after the fires of the Antiochene persecution died out, and it appears that the scrolls were harbored there in a long stretch of safety that did not end until the abovementioned Roman aggressions. There can be no doubt of the identity of the Scriptures held at the temple throughout this time: there were 22 books (or 24, depending on how they were divided and counted), and they were lumped into three major divisions: the Law (Pentateuch), the Prophets, and the Writings. Though we divide them into 39 books rather than 22 or 24, the Protestant Old Testament canon of books is identical to those books that were safeguarded at the temple before the time of Christ. The two most significant religious bodies in Israel (Pharisees and Sadducees) both accepted this body of books as the canon of Scripture, though one often hears it mistakenly asserted that the Sadducees accepted only the Pentateuch.

      “Make public the twenty-four books that you wrote first [the inspired 39 book Old Testament], and let the worthy and the unworthy read them; but keep the seventy that were written last [the uninspired Apocryphal books], in order to give them to the wise among your people”—2 Esdras 14:45,46 NRSV

      What about the books of the Apocrypha? This is a diverse set of books—most of which were written in Greek, not Hebrew, between 200 BCE and early in the first century CE—that treat various aspects of Jewish religious and national life in the Intertestamental period, which ranged from 400 BCE. to the time of Christ. Only the books of 1 Maccabees and 2 Maccabees offer important windows into the Jewish historical context, and some Jews of that time regarded them as valuable religious literature. However, they were never received as Scripture by mainstream Judaism, and even fringe groups such as the Essenes reckoned them valuable, but not scriptural. The books of the Apocrypha were never stored in the temple, a sure sign that they were not thought to be inspired by God. Please see the two articles on this site about the Apocrypha for more details about what these writings were, why these writings are not part of, “All Scripture is inspired by God” (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB).

      This is not to say there were no struggles among the Jews about the identity of the canon. In fact, five of the books that were counted as canonical had a hard time winning unilateral acceptance. The books of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Song of Songs, and Ezekiel were subjected to scrutiny because they seemed secular in outlook or else promoted teachings that initially seemed inconsistent with the Pentateuch. Jewish leaders debated the merits of these books from time to time, as Christian leaders would do in the centuries to come, but all in all their status in the canon was well established.  The Apocryphal books were added to the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament canon of books) because Greek speaking Jews wanted access to Jewish holy books plus important non-biblical books. The early Church widely used the Septuagint, but the Apocrypha was rightly rejected. Seeing the need to clarify the status of the Apocrypha, the Reformers elected to separate it from the canonical books. Thus the Apccrypha came to be excluded from Protestant Bibles.

      Following Jesus’ example, early Christians adopted the Jewish consensus on the Old Testament canon of books. During His ministry Jesus showed that He was in line with the standard Jewish assessment of the canon by quoting from all three divisions of the OT  Given the fact that neither Jesus nor his apostles quoted from the Apocrypha, it would be remarkable if early Christians trumped their example and counted these books as Scripture.

      The following is excerpted from the article, “Evidence of Early New Testament Canon by 100 CE”, on this website:

      “We ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us – whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter – asserting that the day of the Lord has come. Don’t let anyone deceive you” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3). This is just one of many proofs that there were other known supposed “Christian” writings circulating even as early as the mid-first century. Some of these purported to be written by church leaders, such as the apostles. Christians were warned about these, as shown here, as early as the 50’s.

      Additional proof of the early canonical acceptance is that in 96 CE, Clement of Rome quoted the sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7), and treated it as scripture. By 110 CE, Ignatius of Antioch, an associate of the apostle John, said the Gospels were Scripture.

      No other books other than the 27 in the NT canon were ever seriously considered to be canonical. Books, such as the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Thomas, and the Gospel of Judas, were written long after the apostles, and their teachings did not match the OT or NT canonical teachings. Others, such as the Shepherd of Hermas, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Epistle of 1 Clement, and the Didache, were rejected as canonical simply because of the distance in time from the apostles and the apostolic age.

      So we have extremely strong, powerful, evidence proving the 27-book NT canon was in existence by around the year 100 CE. Is there an official list of the 27 New Testament books from the 1st century that is extant today? No, but we don’t need such, because there is more than adequate proof scripturally and historically for the inspired 27 book New Testament canon by 100 CE.

      Eric—Bart Ehrman on Google Mesh (since You had mentioned Bart, which my Google Mesh states when prompted, “ Bart is an .. he has written and edited 30 books, including.. he has also authored 3 NYT’s best seller.

      Astounding about his credentials, Yale , Greek background and it says he became a Christian at 17 ..born again experience in high school… Moody…evangelical days at Wheaton 17: , etc… passionate to study theology, etc… I’m paraphrasing a lot here

      6 Again, “ The scholarly world would be a happier place if all authors had readers such as these.” He gives gratitude to four keen and careful scholars… interesting stuff. Our technology…and later an A.I BIBLE ( in the works)

      BA—Ehrman is a very popular and knowledgeable Biblical scholar these days. But years he became an agnostic. He is to a large degree a scholarly skeptic, and not all of his views are correct. For example, “5. Bart states .. Bible was a human book from beginning to end”, he doesn’t believe in the divine inspiration of the 66 Bible books.

      Eric—4. Genealogy in Book of Matthew? ( scribed copy wrong)

      BA—No, Matthew was selective in his genealogy of Jesus Christ. He did not include every single human ancestor of Jesus Christ. Matthew included the main names so that the Jews could see that Jesus was descended from Abraham and David, in fulfillment of prophecy. Omission is not tantamount to contradiction. There was no scribal error.

      The following is excerpted from the article, “When Was the Book of Matthew Written?”, on this website:

      “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham became the father of Isaac . . . ” (Matthew 1:1,2 NAB). Matthew only traces Jesus’ genealogy back to Abraham, which is all that is necessary for Matthew’s primarily Jewish audience to prove Jesus’ genealogical pedigree to being the Messiah. He doesn’t trace it all the way back to Adam, as Luke does.

      BA—Keep up the good study you’re doing, Eric!

  14. Wow and thanks! I will reread, research what you have written. It will definitely take some time to verify all the pertinent information. So I will eventually have more questions on the specificity in it as well.
    I’ve read twice Ancient Egypt and the Old Testament by John D. Currid, associate professor of Old Testament at Reformed Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. Ph.D. from Oriental Institute University of Chicago
    ( “Old Testament in light of cultural context”) …” a valuable book for background studies …It’s printed on back cover….John H. Walton , Moody Bible Institute
    Paperback second printing, July 1999
    P. 28, Currid writes :”That is the rub: Maesopotamian accounts were written before the Bible. We have texts of the Gilgamesh Epic that predate the Scriptures by centuries.”
    P. 227-“ Comparison of the Egyptian collections of dream omens with the biblical story of Joseph reveals significant parallels. In fact, the foundational elements present in the Chester Beatty Papyrus III are also essential characteristics of the dream sequences in Genesis 40-41

    P.124, MAP of A Proposed Route of the Hebrew Exodus and then p.22 Map of Ancient Egypt some near Bahrain Oasis
    Question : Where is archaeological evidence ,if any, of Hebrew Exodus ?
    We know reasons Ancient Egypt some remnants of its ancient civilization widespread, but not a tad of it of the Hebrew Exodus,etc.

    In 1973, at age 22, immediately after Israeli war, I had travelled with Bedouins and its caravans through some areas of Sinai, ( and not as a TOURIST) , learned Bedouin Arabic ( simple people, and very basic vocabulary, climbed Mt. Sinai, Mt. Catherine, stayed for three days with Orthodox monks, the whole experiences were a substantial leap from a mere existence, I call it.,
    … so where are the 10 Commandment Tablets, just a piece? Was that the same Mt Sinai I had climbed that Moses did, too?
    There is no archaeological evidence of Hebrew Exodus: Tell el Khelelfel , nor Tabeh, nor alongside Gulf of Aqaba, nor Serabit el-Khadem. I traveled these areas, too

    Footnotes from Currid: See the discussion of C.deWit, The Date and Route of the Exodus ( London: Tyndall, 1960), 13-16

    Thanks again. You most likely hear from me after many weeks

    Thanks so much for your time researching.

    Eric

    1. Eric—Wow and thanks! I will reread, research what you have written. It will definitely take some time to verify all the pertinent information. So I will eventually have more questions on the specificity in it as well.
      I’ve read twice Ancient Egypt and the Old Testament by John D. Currid, associate professor of Old Testament at Reformed Seminary in Jackson, Mississippi. Ph.D. from Oriental Institute University of Chicago
      ( “Old Testament in light of cultural context”) …” a valuable book for background studies …It’s printed on back cover….John H. Walton , Moody Bible Institute
      Paperback second printing, July 1999
      P. 28, Currid writes :”That is the rub: Maesopotamian accounts were written before the Bible. We have texts of the Gilgamesh Epic that predate the Scriptures by centuries.”

      BA—-Exerpted from the article, “Ancient Flood Stories . . . “, on this website:

      The traditions of ancient peoples throughout the world share in common the inclusion of flood stories. The Mesopotamian accounts have garnered the most discussion since they are culturally closer to the Biblical material than any of the other non-Scriptural narratives. The most famous of the many ancient flood stories is the Mesopotamian flood account, the Babylonian version, found in the library of the Assyrian king Ashurbanipal (seventh century BCE) as part of the larger Epic of Gilgamesh.

      In this epic, Gilgamesh searches for a man named Utnapishtum (the equivalent of the Biblical Noah), whose story is then recounted. When one of the highest gods, Enlil, becomes annoyed by the cacophony of noise coming from human beings, he decides to inundate and destroy them all in a catastrophic deluge. Enki, the god of waters, reveals Enlil’s intent to the mortal Utnapishtum, directing him to construct an enormous boat and load it with pairs of animals. Instructed not to reveal the reason for this mystifying building project, Utnapishtum is further commanded at a critical point to take his wife on board with him. For seven harried days and nights Utnapishtum and his wife are tossed about in this vessel as floodwaters engulf the earth. When the waters finally subside, the boat lodges atop a tall mountain. Utnapishtum sends out a dove, a swallow and a raven, the last of which fails to return, apparently having located nourishment.

      The man then disembarks and offers lavish sacrifices to the gods, who in turn bestow eternal life upon him and his wife for having safeguarded the future of humans and animals.

      An Akkadian account dating to around 1600 BCE recounts basically the same tale as that embedded in the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh, except that the Noah-character is named Atra-hasis. An even earlier Sumerian version, known as the Eridu Genesis, contains the stories of creation and the development of the first cities, along with an account of the great flood. Here the hero is Ziusudra.

      Bible readers will immediately recognize the similarities between the Mesopotamian and Biblical accounts. But there are significant differences, too. According to the Bible God, was not simply irritated by the badness of humanity. He was terribly grieved, to the point that “his heart was filled with pain” by the magnitude of human sin (Genesis 6:5-7). God’s plan was not thwarted by the cunning of another deity. Yahweh God himself chose to preserve both humanity and animal life through Noah (Genesis 6:13-21). Genesis also attests to a longer flood period than other ancient flood stories, and, although God made a covenant with Noah, he did not grant him immortality. “After the flood, Noah lived 350 years. Noah lived a total of 950 years, and then he died” (Genesis 9:28,29 NIV).

      Assuming a later date for the Biblical composition, some scholars have suggested that Mesopotamian accounts may have served as a prototype for the narrative in Genesis. But most researchers believe that the Biblical account is not simply a modification of the Mesopotamian ancient flood stories, but one of several versions of a common story. The differences can be attributed to the special revelation God gave the Biblical authors, including Moses, the writer of Genesis, by which he made known his plan of redemption. This makes the Bible unique. The other versions, or ancient flood stories, provide extra-biblical confirmation of the story of a great flood rather than demonstrating, as some have suggested, that the Biblical account is a myth. The other ancient flood stories help to confirm the Biblical account as genuine, in fact, as “the word of the Lord” (1 Peter 1:25).

      Eric—P. 227-“ Comparison of the Egyptian collections of dream omens with the biblical story of Joseph reveals significant parallels. In fact, the foundational elements present in the Chester Beatty Papyrus III are also essential characteristics of the dream sequences in Genesis 40-41

      BA—The text of Chester Beatty Papyrus III is of Revelation 9 only. Perhaps you’ve got some mistaken information.

      There is an Egyptian text called Papyrus D’Orbiney, which has been called “The Tale of Two Brothers”, has been dated to circa 1225 BCE, and has some similarities to the Egyptians’ dreams in Genesis 40-41 that Joseph interpreted. Since these events in Joseph’s life took place about 500 years prior to the Papyrus D’Orbiney, and Genesis was written about 250 years earlier than the Papyrus D’Orbiney, the Egyptian fantasy tale may have been influenced by the Biblical reality, and not the other way around. 

      Eric—P.124, MAP of A Proposed Route of the Hebrew Exodus and then p.22 Map of Ancient Egypt some near Bahrain Oasis
      Question : Where is archaeological evidence ,if any, of Hebrew Exodus ?

      BA—Considering the fact that the Exodus took place about 3,500 years ago through isolated wilderness desert with the Israelites and others in the group moving from place to place, and no permament structures were erected, such lack of extant archaeological evidence is no surprising.

      Eric—We know reasons Ancient Egypt some remnants of its ancient civilization widespread, but not a tad of it of the Hebrew Exodus, etc. There is no archaeological evidence of Hebrew Exodus: Tell el Khelelfel , nor Tabeh, nor alongside Gulf of Aqaba, nor Serabit el-Khadem. I traveled these areas, too

      BA—The Egyptians and their pantheon of gods were completely humiliated by the ten plagues, and the liberation of their Hebrew slaves. Ancient nations, kings, rulers, and their historians, are well known to omit and eliminate anything embarrassing and uncomplimentary to them. So, such a lack of mention of the Hebrews being in Egypt is not at all surprising.

      Eric—In 1973, at age 22, immediately after Israeli war, I had travelled with Bedouins and its caravans through some areas of Sinai, ( and not as a TOURIST) , learned Bedouin Arabic ( simple people, and very basic vocabulary, climbed Mt. Sinai, Mt. Catherine, stayed for three days with Orthodox monks, the whole experiences were a substantial leap from a mere existence, I call it.,
      … so where are the 10 Commandment Tablets, just a piece?

      BA—The Ten Commandments were kept in the Ark of the Covenant, which was apparently destroyed with the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in 587-586 BCE (Hebrews 9:1-4; 2 Kings 25:8,9; 2 Chronicles 36:19).

      Eric—Was that the same Mt Sinai I had climbed that Moses did, too?

      BA—The exact location of the Biblical Mt Sinai is not known, and cannot be definitively identified.

      Several peaks in the sinai Peninsula have been suggested as being the Biblical Mt Sinai –Jebel Musa (7519′), has a broad plain at its base that could have held the large Hebrew encampment; Jebel Serbal (6759′); and Jebel Katarina (8551′).

      Eric—Footnotes from Currid: See the discussion of C.deWit, The Date and Route of the Exodus ( London: Tyndall, 1960), 13-16

      Thanks again. You most likely hear from me after many weeks

      Thanks so much for your time researching.

      BA—Anytime, Eric!

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