First Vatican Council – Pope Infallible & Mary Sinless?

First Vatican Council – Pope Infallible & Mary Sinless?

The Christian Post published an article on December 8, 2024 about the First Vatican Council, which began December 8, 1869. This Roman Catholic Church Council decided that the pope, the leader of the Church cannot make a mistake about certain matters of faith, and that Jesus’ mother, Mary, never sinned. Are these claims actually Biblical? We’ll see.

Part of this article appears below:

This week in Christian history: . . . First Vatican Council begins

First Vatican Council begins – Dec. 8, 1869

A contemporary painting of the gathering of Catholic Church leaders for the First Vatican Council, which went f<a class=rom 1869 to 1870." width="400" height="245" />
A contemporary painting of the gathering of Catholic Church leaders for the First Vatican Council, which went from 1869 to 1870. | Wikimedia Commons

This week marks the anniversary of when the First Vatican Council, an influential gathering of Catholic Church leaders that would last nearly a year, held its opening proceedings.

Convened by Pope Pius IX, the first session of the gathering was held at St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome, Italy, with the proceedings being indefinitely halted the following year due to the outbreak of the Franco-Prussian War.

Also known as Vatican I, the gathering officially recognized the concept of papal infallibility, which states that under specific official circumstances, the pontiff cannot err on matters of faith.

Since the 1800s, papal infallibility has only been invoked twice: when Pope Pius IX declared that the Virgin Mary was born sinless and when Pope Pius XII declared that Mary was assumed into Heaven rather than dying a natural death.

The Bible says that, “No distinction is made: all have sinned and lack God’s glory” (Romans 3:23 Roman Catholic New Jerusalem Bible). Every human, even the most devout Christians, including Church leaders, sin. Indeed, “there is no one on earth so just as to do good and never sin” (Ecclesiastes 7:20 Roman Catholic New American Bible). There are no exceptions, not even for Mary, Jesus’ mother.

The Roman Catholic Church claims that Jesus’ apostle Peter was appointed by Jesus as the first pope of the Church. However, this claim is contradicted by the scriptural evidence, such as the following:

“But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile believers, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. As a result, other Jewish believers followed Peter’s hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, ‘Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?'”—-Galatians 2:11-14 NAB

Peter was obviously neither the first pope nor infallible. The scriptures resoundingly debunk the major claims of Roman Catholic Church’s First Vatican Council.

13 thoughts on “First Vatican Council – Pope Infallible & Mary Sinless?

  1. All human beings are fallible. This includes Jesus, Paul, and all the popes.

    Besides, God does not exist. We now know this. It has been proven.

    1. GW—All human beings are fallible

      BA—True, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23 NIV).

      GW—This includes Jesus

      BA—No, afraid not!

      “He committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22 NIV).

  2. Strictly speaking, nobody sins because sin is intentional behavior which violates a command of God and God does not exist. However, in the probably fictional stories about Jesus, he sinned several times. On one occasion, he dishonored his own mother by ignoring her. On another occasion, he caused a supposed “evil spirit” to leave a man and go into a herd of sheep, which then ran over a cliff. This was harmful to the sheep and to their owner. On another occasion, he wrongly forgave an adulteress. There are other examples like this. Jesus was fallible.

    1. GW—Strictly speaking, nobody sins because sin is intentional behavior which violates a command of God and God does not exist. However, in the probably fictional stories about Jesus, he sinned several times.

      BA—No, “All [humans] have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).
      Jesus said, “Can any of you charge me with sin?” (John 8:46).

      GW—On one occasion, he dishonored his own mother by ignoring her
      BA—Not true. He was “tested in every way, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), “holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners” (Hebrews 7:26).

      GW—he caused a supposed “evil spirit” to leave a man and go into a herd of sheep,

      BA—True.

      GW—which then ran over a cliff.

      BA—He did not cause them to run down the cliff and drown.

      GW—This was harmful to the sheep and to their owner.

      BA—Jesus is not responsible for the demons violence to the swine.

      GW— On another occasion, he wrongly forgave an adulteress.

      BA—“The story of the woman caught in adultery is a later insertion here, missing from all early Greek manuscripts” (NAB note on John 7:53-8:11).

      GW—There are other examples like this. Jesus was fallible.

      BA—No,”He committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22). “In him there is no sin” (1 John 3:5).

      1. GW2—Strictly speaking, nobody sins because sin is intentional behavior which violates a command of God and God does not exist. However, in the probably fictional stories about Jesus, he sinned several times.

        BA2—No, “All [humans] have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

        GW3: In the fictional world of the Bible, all humans have sinned. Jesus was a human. And so, Jesus sinned. In the real world, nobody sins because sin does not exist because God does not exist.

        BA3: Jesus said, “Can any of you charge me with sin?” (John 8:46).

        GW3: Yes I can! I have made three charges of sin against Jesus, and there are more.

        GW2—On one occasion, he dishonored his own mother by ignoring her

        BA3—Not true. He was “tested in every way, yet without sin” (Hebrews 4:15), “holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners” (Hebrews 7:26).

        GW3: That is just the opinion of the author of Hebrews. See these verses for the incident in which Jesus sinned by dishonoring his own mother: “31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, ‘Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.’ 33 ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.’” Mark 3:31-33, NIV

        GW2—he caused a supposed “evil spirit” to leave a man and go into a herd of sheep,

        BA3—True.

        GW2—which then ran over a cliff.

        BA3—He did not cause them to run down the cliff and drown.

        GW3: Yes, he was partly responsible for causing this. He would have known ahead of time that this would happe, if he cast out some evil spirit.

        GW2—This was harmful to the sheep and to their owner.

        BA3—Jesus is not responsible for the demons violence to the swine.

        GW3: False. He was partly responsible. See above.

        GW2— On another occasion, he wrongly forgave an adulteress.

        BA3—“The story of the woman caught in adultery is a later insertion here, missing from all early Greek manuscripts” (NAB note on John 7:53-8:11).

        GW3: It’s still in the Bible, the version handed down through the centuries.

        GW2—There are other examples like this. Jesus was fallible.

        BA3—No,”He committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22). “In him there is no sin” (1 John 3:5).

        GW3: False. That is just the opinion of the author of 1 Peter and 1 John. I already specified three sins of Jesus.

        GW3: Here is another sin – incitement to murder. Luke 19:27 (NIV):
        Jesus says “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them – bring them here and kill them in front of me.” That makes FOUR so far.

        1. GW—GW3: Here is another sin – incitement to murder. Luke 19:27 (NIV):
          Jesus says “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them – bring them here and kill them in front of me.” That makes FOUR so far.

          BA–The Parable of the Minas (Luke 19:11-27), like all the rest of Jesus’ parables, is not literal, but is an illustration of particular deeper truths.

          1. Some Christians take it to be literal truth, when it is probably not. But what is the “deeper truth” in the parable, in your opinion?

            Also, if Jesus is presenting a parable which he knows some people will misinterpret as being literally true or if the parable advocates for an immoral action, as this one seems to do, then aren’t those both unethical and sinful acts in themselves? Yes, I think so. These are not the acts of a divine person, a sinless person, or even a messenger of God.

          2. GW—But what is the “deeper truth” in the parable, in your opinion?

            BA—“It furnishes a correction to the expectation of the imminent end of the age and of the establishment of the kingdom in Jerusalem (Luke 19:11). Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem to receive the kingly power; for that, he must go away and only after returning from the distant country (a reference to the parousia) will reward and judgment take place”—NAB note on Luke 19:11-27).

            GW–Also, if Jesus is presenting a parable which he knows some people will misinterpret as being literally true or if the parable advocates for an immoral action, as this one seems to do, then aren’t those both unethical and sinful acts in themselves? Yes, I think so. These are not the acts of a divine person, a sinless person, or even a messenger of God.

            BA—No, the meanings of the parables remain hidden from those who do not in faith sincerely and prayerfully do the investigative work to discover the deeper truths hidden in the parables, like Jesus’ disciples did then, and do now (Matthew 13:10-16,34-36).

  3. GW—But what is the “deeper truth” in the parable, in your opinion?

    BA—“It furnishes a correction to the expectation of the imminent end of the age and of the establishment of the kingdom in Jerusalem (Luke 19:11). Jesus is on his way to Jerusalem to receive the kingly power; for that, he must go away and only after returning from the distant country (a reference to the parousia) will reward and judgment take place”—NAB note on Luke 19:11-27).

    GW: That’s vague and hardly a “deeper truth.” If God did exist, he would use no intermediaries or emmissaries, like Jesus. Also, he would use immediate judgements, rewards, and punishments, not delayed ones. That is the best way to teach people lessons, and God would know best ways.

    GW–Also, if Jesus is presenting a parable which he knows some people will misinterpret as being literally true or if the parable advocates for an immoral action, as this one seems to do, then aren’t those both unethical and sinful acts in themselves? Yes, I think so. These are not the acts of a divine person, a sinless person, or even a messenger of God.

    BA—No, the meanings of the parables remain hidden from those who do not in faith sincerely and prayerfully do the investigative work to discover the deeper truths hidden in the parables, like Jesus’ disciples did then, and do now (Matthew 13:10-16,34-36).

    GW: Pure nonsense. If God did exist, he would not be hidden, shy, or withdrawn. He would be transparent, outgoing, and forthcoming. And he wouldn’t use messengers, like Jesus. He would do his own communicating. You do not worship God. You worship a lesser deity.

    1. BA—No, the meanings of the parables remain hidden from those who do not in faith sincerely and prayerfully do the investigative work to discover the deeper truths hidden in the parables, like Jesus’ disciples did then, and do now (Matthew 13:10-16,34-36).

      GW: Pure nonsense. If God did exist, he would not be hidden, shy, or withdrawn. He would be transparent, outgoing, and forthcoming. And he wouldn’t use messengers, like Jesus. He would do his own communicating. You do not worship God. You worship a lesser deity.

      BA—Jesus accurately described the situation in Matthew chapter 13:

      12To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13That is why I use these parables,

      For they look, but they don’t really see.
      They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.
      14This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says,

      ‘When you hear what I say,
      you will not understand.
      When you see what I do,
      you will not comprehend.
      15For the hearts of these people are hardened,
      and their ears cannot hear,
      and they have closed their eyes—
      so their eyes cannot see,
      and their ears cannot hear,
      and their hearts cannot understand,
      and they cannot turn to me
      and let me heal them.’b

      1. BA—Jesus accurately described the situation in Matthew chapter 13:

        12To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13That is why I use these parables,

        For they look, but they don’t really see.
        They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.
        14This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says,

        ‘When you hear what I say,
        you will not understand.
        When you see what I do,
        you will not comprehend.
        15For the hearts of these people are hardened,
        and their ears cannot hear,
        and they have closed their eyes—
        so their eyes cannot see,
        and their ears cannot hear,
        and their hearts cannot understand,
        and they cannot turn to me
        and let me heal them.’b

        GW: Version citation missing.

        GW: No representative of God would ever say that. Some members of the audience wouldn’t understand, and that would be unfair. Any representative of God would not speak in parables. They would speak clearly and unambiguously in prose in the language of most people in the audience or in all languages of the people in the audience. (The latter would be supernatural.)

        1. GW: Version citation missing.

          BA—NLT

          GW: No representative of God would ever say that. Some members of the audience wouldn’t understand, and that would be unfair. Any representative of God would not speak in parables. They would speak clearly and unambiguously in prose in the language of most people in the audience or in all languages of the people in the audience. (The latter would be supernatural.)

          BA—You’re fulfilling exactly what Jesus said people would do:

          “When you hear what I say,
          you will not understand.
          When you see what I do,
          you will not comprehend”

          Why? Because:

          “For the hearts of these people are hardened,
          and their ears cannot hear,
          and they have closed their eyes—
          so their eyes cannot see,
          and their ears cannot hear,
          and their hearts cannot understand”

          Your figurative heart is hard. You have shut your figurative eyes and ears.

          1. Yes, I am fulfilling Jesus’ prediction of the future. It doesn’t take any supernatural ability to make a prediction like that. Most crazy self-proclaimed prophets predict that there will be other people who don’t understand them or who disagree with them. Not a big deal. I predict you will disagree with me.

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