Can Anyone Today Prove They Are A Jew?
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וּדִים (Yehudim)
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Some today strongly believe that Jews are still God’s favored people. But, can anyone today prove they are a Jew?
In a sense, we can say that some of us Christians today are Americans, some are British, some are Hispanic, some are African, some are Chinese, etc. We can also say that some are male and some are female. We can also say that many are Gentiles, and a few are Jews.
In another sense, we can accurately say, that, for Christians, according to the scriptures, “Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all” (Colossians 3:11 NIV).
The Jews of Bible times were very conscientious of their genealogy, and kept meticulous records. Jesus of Nazareth had the irrefutable genealogy for his Messiahship. Matthew 1:1-16 provides a record of “the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham” (NIV), including “Judah” (Genesis 49:10). His birth at Bethlehem, in fulfillment of Micah 5:2 was also irrefutable (Matthew 2:1-10).
A notable case in point to illustrate this fact occurred among the returning Jewish exiles when an issue arose as to who were genuine descendants of the priestly line.
“The following came up from the towns of Tel Melah, Tel Harsha, Kerub, Addan, and Immer, but they could not show that their families were descended from Israel . . . These searched for their family records, but they could not find them and so were excluded from the priesthood as unclean. The governor ordered them not to eat of any of the most sacred food until there was a priest ministering with the Urim and Thummim”—Ezra 2:59,62,63 NIV
Since these men could not prove their descent from Aaron, they were excluded from the priesthood. No priest has ever arisen since “with the Urim and Thummim.”
Historical facts prove that the Jewish temple in Jerusalem was completely destroyed by the Romans in 70 CE, including all the important genealogical records of the Jews. All evidence to prove anyone’s descent from Abraham was obliterated.
Therefore, no one on earth today can prove their descent from “Abram the Hebrew” (Genesis 14:13), or whether they are a Jew.
11 thoughts on “Can Anyone Today Prove They Are A Jew?”
Of course Jews can prove they are Jews. For this they can use birth records, witness testimonies, DNA samples, statements of religious membership, and historical records.
Your question is kind of insulting to Jews.
GW—Of course Jews can prove they are Jews. For this they can use birth records, witness testimonies, DNA samples, statements of religious membership, and historical records. Your question is kind of insulting to Jews
BA—No, not at all.
Yes, “they can use birth records, witness testimonies, DNA samples, statements of religious membership, and historical records.” However, these can only go back so far in time, but not far enough! Why not? Notice what is claimed:
“The history of Judaism begins with Abraham, who came to believe in one Supreme Being, his son Isaac, Isaac’s son Jacob, later called Israel,
and Jacob’s 12 sons who founded the twelve tribes of Israel Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as the Patriarchs, are both the physical and spiritual ancestors of Judaism. They founded the religion now known as Judaism, and their descendants are the Jewish people.”—Quoted from Judaism 101
Since all of the official Jewish genealogical records, which were kept at the Temple in Jerusalem, were destroyed when Jerusalem and the Temple were completely razed in 70 CE, it is impossible for any humans today to “prove they are Jews”, descended from Abraham.
GW1—Of course Jews can prove they are Jews. For this they can use birth records, witness testimonies, DNA samples, statements of religious membership, and historical records. Your question is kind of insulting to Jews
BA2—No, not at all. Yes, “they can use birth records, witness testimonies, DNA samples, statements of religious membership, and historical records.” However, these can only go back so far in time, but not far enough!
GW2: Yes, they can go far enough.
BA2: Why not? Notice what is claimed:
“The history of Judaism begins with Abraham, who came to believe in one Supreme Being, his son Isaac, Isaac’s son Jacob, later called Israel, and Jacob’s 12 sons who founded the twelve tribes of Israel Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as the Patriarchs, are both the physical and spiritual ancestors of Judaism. They founded the religion now known as Judaism, and their descendants are the Jewish people.”—Quoted from Judaism 101
GW2: That is not an adequate definition of “Jew” in the modern world. Abraham was probably a fictitious character, and we know that God does not exist. If he did exist, God would not show this kind of favoritism for one group of people.
BA2: Since all of the official Jewish genealogical records, which were kept at the Temple in Jerusalem, were destroyed when Jerusalem and the Temple were completely razed in 70 CE, it is impossible for any humans today to “prove they are Jews”, descended from Abraham.
GW2: None of that matters. See above.
GW2: A “Jew” can be defined in a racial, ethnic, and/or religious sense.
GW—GW2: A “Jew” can be defined in a racial, ethnic, and/or religious sense.
BA—It “can be”, yes. But that’s not the traditional scriptural definition used here. We’re using the following quoted definition:
“The history of Judaism begins with Abraham, who came to believe in one Supreme Being, his son Isaac, Isaac’s son Jacob, later called Israel, and Jacob’s 12 sons who founded the twelve tribes of Israel Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as the Patriarchs, are both the physical and spiritual ancestors of Judaism. They founded the religion now known as Judaism, and their descendants are the Jewish people.”—Quoted from Judaism 101
By this definition, no one can prove they are a Jew today.
Yes, when you add the qualifier “By this definition,” then I agree with you, but your original absolutist claim was incorrect. You can’t trace geneology back to a fictional character, and that is probably what Abraham was.
GW—Yes, when you add the qualifier “By this definition,” then I agree with you
BA—That’s good!
GW—You can’t trace geneology back to a fictional character, and that is probably what Abraham was.
BA—Today, the Bible’s accounts of the Hebrew patriarch Abraham are regarded, not only by atheists, but also by some clergymen, as being largely myth.
“The historicity of the ancestral stories has been much discussed. Scholars have traditionally dated them sometime in the first half of the second millennium, though a few regard them as late (sixth or fifth century B. C. and purely fictional . . . Given the lack of decisive evidence, it is reasonable to accept the Bible’s chronology that the patriarchs were ancestors of Israel and that they lived well before the exodus that is generally dated in the thirteenth century”—NAB Study Bible, Introduction to Genesis
HARAN
“So Abram went as Yahweh told him, and Lot went with him. Abram was seventy-five years old when he left Haran. Abram took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, all the possessions they had acquired and the people they had acquired in Haran. They set off for the land of Canaan, and arrived there” (Genesis 12:4,5 NJB)
According to the Bible Abraham came from Haran to the land of Canaan about 2000 BCE. But some critical scholars assume that the story of Abraham was invented about 1000 BC. Is this likely?
“God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish”—1 Corinthians 1:20 NLT
What a “coincidence”! — Lo and behold! Archaeologists have now confirmed that Haran was indeed a major commercial center at the time of Abraham (circa 2000 BCE), and also that it was not even occupied from circa 1800 BCE to circa 700 BCE! Thus, the myth that the story of the supposedly fictional character Abraham and his time in Haran, was invented circa 1000 BCE, is busted, because it is now known that Haran did not even exist circa 1000 BCE!
I think we are mostly in agreement about Moses, but Jews can identify themselves without reference to Moses.
GW–I think we are mostly in agreement about Moses, but Jews can identify themselves without reference to Moses.
BA—We haven’t mentioned Moses in this article or in these comments.
They “can”, yes. But, that’s not the traditional scriptural definition used here. We’re using the following quoted definition of Jewish people , which is their descent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
“The history of Judaism begins with Abraham, who came to believe in one Supreme Being, his son Isaac, Isaac’s son Jacob, later called Israel, and Jacob’s 12 sons who founded the twelve tribes of Israel Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, known as the Patriarchs, are both the physical and spiritual ancestors of Judaism. They founded the religion now known as Judaism, and their descendants are the Jewish people.”—Quoted from Judaism 101
Abraham is probably a fictional character also. If God and Abraham really existed, God would not torment or favor Abraham as it is described in the Bible. God would not tell Abraham to sacrifice his own son to God himself. That would be unethical by God. Also, God would not show favoritism to a whole group of people, i.e. the descendants of Abraham. That would be unfair, unjust, and unethical too. You must remember, that if God did exist, he would necessarily be perfectly moral.
You are thinking of your own deity who is not God.
GW—If God and Abraham really existed, God would not torment or favor Abraham as it is described in the Bible. Also, God would not show favoritism to a whole group of people, i.e. the descendants of Abraham.
BA—God has never, ‘tormented’ anyone, nor will he. “God shows no favoritism” (Acts 10:34 NLT).
“Is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is”—Romans 3:29 NLT
GW—God would not tell Abraham to sacrifice his own son to God himself. That would be unethical by God.
BA—God tested Abraham with that command, but did not allow Abraham to sacrifice his son (Genesis 22:12,13).
GW—You must remember, that if God did exist, he would necessarily be perfectly moral.
BA—He is!!!! You must remember that:
“All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: ‘What have you done?’”—Daniel 4:35 NIV
GW3—If God and Abraham really existed, God would not torment or favor Abraham as it is described in the Bible. Also, God would not show favoritism to a whole group of people, i.e. the descendants of Abraham.
BA4—God has never, ‘tormented’ anyone, nor will he. “God shows no favoritism” (Acts 10:34 NLT).
GW4: Yes, if God did exist, he would neither torment nor show favoritism, but according to those ancient Bible stories, God did torment Abraham and showed favoritism to Jews.
BA4: “Is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is”—Romans 3:29 NLT
GW4: If God did exist, he would be the only deity, but unfortunately he does not exist. This has been proven.
GW3—God would not tell Abraham to sacrifice his own son to God himself. That would be unethical by God.
BA4—God tested Abraham with that command, but did not allow Abraham to sacrifice his son (Genesis 22:12,13).
GW4: Yes, according to the story, God tested Abraham by unethically commanding him to sacrifice his son, and then later revoked the command. If God did exist, he would never give a command like that to anyone.
GW4—You must remember, that if God did exist, he would necessarily be perfectly moral.
BA4—He is!!!!
GW4: False. God does not exist. We know this because if he did exist he would be all powerful and perfectly moral at the same time, and so he would prevent the Holocaust and he would regularly communicate with all living persons at the same time.
BA4: You must remember that: “All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: ‘What have you done?’”—Daniel 4:35 NIV
GW4: If God did exist, he would always do “as he pleases” and it would always please him to act morally. He would act according to his nature, which would be “perfectly moral.” This is one way we know that God does not exist. Anyone can say to anyone “What have you done?” That is a proper moral challenge.