DID JESUS CHRIST DIE IN HIS “DEITY”/”DIVINITY”?
“Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who never dies”—Habakkuk 1:12 NJB
“My God, my Holy One, you will never die”—Habakkuk 1:12 NIV
“Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God”—1 Timothy 1:17 NIV
Since it is obvious from the scriptures that Almighty God, Yahweh, cannot die, the Trinitarian claim that Jesus Christ is Almighty God runs into a huge problem. To overcome this problem, Trinitarians claim that Jesus “died in his humanity, but not in his “Deity”, or “Divinity”. Do the scriptures support such an idea? Are there any scriptures that say anything about such an idea? Actually, no, there are none. In fact, the scriptures contradict such erroneous ideas.
“Jesus Christ has come in the flesh”—1 John 4:2 NIV
“The Word [Jesus] became flesh and made his dwelling among us”—John 1:14
“He had to be made like them, fully human in every way”—Hebrews 2:17 NIV
Thus, the scriptures establish the fact that, on earth, prior to his death, Jesus was completely and totally human. What does the Bible say God is?
“God is not human”—Numbers 23:19 NIV. Almighty God has never been human.
“God is spirit” (John 4:24 NIV), not human.
“To the King eternal, immortal, invisible”—1 Timothy 1:17 NIV
According to the scriptures, God is an invisible spirit, who has never been human, in contrast to Jesus, who was human while he lived on earth.
“Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God”—John 20:17
“He committed no sin”—1 Peter 2:22 NIV
“In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace”—Ephesians 1:7 NIV
“THE BLOOD OF JESUS, HIS SON, PURIFIES US FROM ALL SIN”—1 John 1:7 NIV
Thus, “Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son” (2 John 3 NIV), was/is completely and totally qualified to die for our sins, and did not have to be Almighty God himself, as Trinitarians claim. The scriptures say nothing about any supposed “dual nature”, or “hypostatic union”, of Trinitarian invention. In fact, if any part of Jesus had remained alive, he could not have died for our sins.
Could Almighty God die for our sins?—Not according to the scriptures!
“Surely you, Yahweh, are from ancient times, my holy God, who NEVER DIES!”—Habakkuk 1:12 NJB. It is impossible for almighty God to ever die.
“From eternity to eternity you are God”—Psalm 90:2 NAB. Almighty God has lived continuously from all eternity. There has never been a time when he did not exist.
“The King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God”—1 Timothy 1:17 NIV. Almighty God has always been eternal, meaning he has never died.
So, now, what do the scriptures say about Jesus dying “in his divinity/deity for our sins”. As we saw above, Jesus is no “God-man”, as Trinitarians claim. There is nothing in the scriptures even remotely resembling their claim that “Jesus is/was 100% human and 100% God at the same time”.
“CHRIST DIED for our sins”—1 Corinthians 15:3
“GOD RAISED THE LORD FROM THE DEAD”—1 Corinthians 6:14 NIV
“IN HIM DWELLS the whole fullness of DEITY bodily”, “GOD WHO RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD”—Colossians 2:9,12 NAB
“IN HIM, in bodily form, LIVES DIVINITY in all its fullness”, “God who raised him from the dead”—Colossians 2:9,12 NJB
From the above scriptures, it is plain to see that “Christ”, “the Lord”, has “the whole fullness of Deity” (“Divinity”) in him, but is not Almighty God, and he, as Christ, “died for our sins.” Christians “may come to share in the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4 NAB) also, but that doesn’t make them God. “Deity” or “Divinity” in the case of Christ simply means that he is divine, or godlike, but not Almighty God.
9 thoughts on “DID JESUS CHRIST DIE IN HIS “DEITY”/”DIVINITY”?”
The controversy about the trinity is easily solved. The trinity is just a team of three persons. One of them (Jesus) was probably real, and the other two (God and the Holy Spirit) are hypothetical.
You said “From the above scriptures, it is plain to see that “Christ”, “the Lord”, is “Deity”/”Divinity”, and he, as such, “died for our sins.”
This cannot be true. If God did exist, he would never implement a system of atonement where one person paid for the sins of others. Instead, he would implement a system of perfect justice where all persons paid for their own sins. God would establish perfect individual accountability. Unfortunately, Christianity violates this basic principle.
Gary—Nice to hear from you. I’m sorry about Marci’s death, and I hope you’re doing well in LA!
Actually each person dies as a result of his own sins, which is only fair.
“The one who sins is the one who will die”—Ezekiel 18:4
“The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them”—Ezekiel 18:20 NLT
“The wages of sin is death . . . “—Romans 6:23a
Yes, it is only fair that each person pays for, and dies for, his/her own sins.
“No one can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for them—the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough–so that they should live on forever and not see decay”—Psalm 49:7,8 NIV
Humans have no way out of the predicament of eventual eternal death, at least not on their own!
However, the good news is:
“. . . but the gift God gives is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”—Romans 6:23b
“God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith”—Romans 3:25
This choice is up to us to a large degree.
[All quotes NIV]
RT2: Actually each person dies as a result of his own sins, which is only fair.
GW2: According to Genesis, God brought death into the world as a punishment to Adam and Eve and their descendants. But death is the same for everyone, and therefore it could not be a punishment from God for anyone’s sins. Any punishment from God would be varied and proportional.
RT2: Humans have no way out of the predicament of eventual eternal death, at least not on their own!
GW2: It is unlikely that anyone will ever escape death.
RT2: However, the good news is:
“. . . but the gift God gives is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”—Romans 6:23b
“God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith”—Romans 3:25
GW2: This cannot be true. If God did exist, he would never arrange for the torture and death of his own son and would never set up a system of atonement. Those would be immoral acts, and God would be perfectly moral. Instead, he would implement perfect justice. It is impossible for Christianity to be true.
“Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12 NIV). Sin every human has inherited sin, every experiences, sooner or later, the penalty for sin, namely, death. However, humans have a way out of this predicament, if they so choose. “All are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shredding of his blood, to be received by faith . . . he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:24-26 NIV). Notice that it is only “those who have faith in Jesus” who are “justified” by God. “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:10 NIV). The choice to escape death is ours to make. Jesus said, “Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24 NIV). God allowed evil humans to torture and murder his innocent Son, Jesus (1 Peter 2:22), so as to “ransom” faithful humans from the penalty of eternal death (1 Timothy 2:6). This was a great sacrifice on God’s part, because “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16 NIV). This is perfect justice!
RT3: “Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12 NIV). Sin every human has inherited sin, every experiences, sooner or later, the penalty for sin, namely, death.
GW3: The definition of sin is “behavior in disobedience to God.” And so, sin cannot be inherited. Also as I have said, if God did exist, he would never punish descendants of Adam and Eve for the sins of Adam and Eve, either by imposing death or by imposing a predisposition to sin. That would be immoral, and if God did exist he would be perfectly moral instead. The story of Adam and Eve is fabricated nonsense! It does not comport with a proper theory of God. Neither Jews, Christians, nor Muslims have a proper theory of God. They don’t know what they are talking about.
RT3: However, humans have a way out of this predicament, if they so choose. “All are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shredding of his blood, to be received by faith . . . he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:24-26 NIV).
GW3: This is another one of those ridiculous Christian stories. If God did exist, there would be no forgiveness, mercy, or grace. Instead, God would implement a system of perfect justice. This would involve proportional and fair punishment of every person for every sin, and this would include you and me. You would not be an exception, as much as you would like that.
RT3: Notice that it is only “those who have faith in Jesus” who are “justified” by God.
GW3: Yes, I noticed that ridiculous requirement which God would never implement. As Mark Twain once said “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.” He was right. God would never require anyone to have faith in order to escape proper punishment. In fact, he would not let anyone escape! All would be held accountable, including you Ross.
RT3: “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:10 NIV). The choice to escape death is ours to make.
GW3: This is evidence that Jesus was not a messenger of God since God would never establish such a requirement or test. It is now clear to all who have studied the alleged resurrection that it never happened! There is not a single first-person author-identified eye-witness report of any event surrounding the crucifixion of Jesus, not one! In the history of humanity there has not been a single well documented instance of somebody coming back to life out of 110 billion opportunities, not one! If God did exist and if Jesus did come back to life, God would have arranged for “the risen Jesus” to present himself to the Jews and Romans who tortured him, then their journalists and historians would have clearly documented the event, and then we would have those documents today. This has not happened. And so, either God does not exist or Jesus never came back to life or BOTH! Apparently both.
RT3: Jesus said, “Whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24 NIV).
GW3: This cannot be true. The evidence doesn’t warrant the conclusion. If he did exist, God would have us believe hypotheses on good evidence, not bad.
RT3: God allowed evil humans to torture and murder his innocent Son, Jesus (1 Peter 2:22), so as to “ransom” faithful humans from the penalty of eternal death (1 Timothy 2:6).
GW3: This cannot be true. God would be evil if he allowed humans to torture and murder his innocent son. And he would be evil if he allowed one person to accept the punishment for other persons. Christian doctrine is ridiculous and should not be accepted by any rational person.
RT3: This was a great sacrifice on God’s part, because “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16 NIV). This is perfect justice!
GW3: No. Perfect justice occurs when everyone receives the exact punishment which they deserve, not when their punishment is transferred to somebody who doesn’t deserve it. You have the craziest notion of justice I have ever heard.
Mark Twain didn’t know what faith is, his definition of faith, which is commonly believed, is mistaken! “Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see” (Hebrews 11:1 NIV). True faith is thus based on reality, not on what we wish for, not on unrealities or imaginations. You think that God, if he is real, should be like you imagine that he should be. Since he’s not, you deny his existence. However, “since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone–an image made by human design and skill” (Acts 17:29 NIV). You’ve constructed an image in your mind of what God should be. “‘For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8,9 NIV).
RT4: Mark Twain didn’t know what faith is, his definition of faith, which is commonly believed, is mistaken!
GW4: I disagree. Mark Twain gave an acceptable definition of “faith.”
RT4: “Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see” (Hebrews 11:1 NIV).
GW4: That’s equivalent to Twain’s definition. Confidence, hope, and assurance, as mentioned in this verse, do not constitute good evidence, knowledge, or reason. They fall short. Faith is belief based on wishful thinking. Examples are your wishes that Jesus came back to life and that God exists.
RT4: True faith is thus based on reality, not on what we wish for, not on unrealities or imaginations.
GW4: Here is my definition in case you haven’t seen it or don’t recall it: “Faith is belief untuned to or misaligned with evidence and/or logic, and usually tuned to or aligned solely or primarily with authority, majority opinion, peer pressure, tradition, intuition, wishes, or some combination of these.”
RT4: You think that God, if he is real, should be like you imagine that he should be.
GW4: No, that’s not what I think. I just use the standard definition of God which is this: “God is the hypothetical supernatural, unique, independent, eternal, invulnerable, everywhere-present, all-knowing, perfectly rational, all-powerful, perfectly moral person or intelligent agent who created the cosmos, sometimes intervenes in our world, and assigns human persons to different desirable or undesirable conditions after they die.”
RT4: Since he’s not, you deny his existence.
GW4: No, that’s not what I think. There are several valid proofs that God, as defined in the standard way, does not exist.
RT4: However, “since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone–an image made by human design and skill” (Acts 17:29 NIV).
GW4: If he did exist, God would not be like gold, silver, or stone. He would be like what is described in the standard definition. See above.
RT4: You’ve constructed an image in your mind of what God should be.
GW4: The image of God in my mind is the image from the standard definition. If you disagree with that definition, then please state what traits should be deleted, added, or modified, in your opinion. Be specific.
RT4: “‘For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways,’ declares the LORD. ‘As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8,9 NIV).
GW4: Nobody expects that if God did exist that his thoughts would be exactly like ours. But since he would be perfectly rational, then his thoughts would be similar to our best thoughts derived through reason. An example of this is Correct Universal Ethics. An example of a moral rule from CUE is “Any person X should not enslave any other person Y.” There are many others.
“Assurance about what we do not see” (Hebrews 11:1 NIV) is based on facts, not fiction. In fact, there is much stronger evidence in support of the Creator, Almighty God’s existence than there is in support of your birth. Your parents and others could be mistaken, or even have lied, about your birth, and your birth certificate could be fake, or falsified. On the other hand, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge . . . Yet their voice goes out into all the earth” (Psalm 19:1,2,4 NIV). “The moon, the faithful witness in the sky” (Psalm 89:37 NIV). These “witnesses” do not make mistakes, fabricate, or lie. “Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what is made, so that people are without excuse” (Romans 1:20 NIV).
RT5: “Assurance about what we do not see” (Hebrews 11:1 NIV) is based on facts, not fiction.
GW5: Not necessarily. You may be assured in your own mind that fairies exist even when you don’t see them and when they don’t exist.
RT5: In fact, there is much stronger evidence in support of the Creator, Almighty God’s existence than there is in support of your birth.
GW5: I disagree. There are several sound proofs that God does not exist. There is excellent evidence I was born.
RT5: Your parents and others could be mistaken, or even have lied, about your birth, and your birth certificate could be fake, or falsified.
GW5: Those records are very likely correct, but there is another way that I know that I was born. I have observed other births of human beings and they have grown up to be adults like me. I’ve not seen an exception. Thus, by rational inference, I too was born. (We can also see that when people die, they don’t come back to life. Rational inference again.)
RT5: On the other hand, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Dat after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge . . . Yet their voice goes out into all the earth” (Psalm 19:1,2,4 NIV).
GW5: Heavens don’t speak. Skies don’t proclaim. Days and nights don’t reveal. None is a person. These are all metaphors for the author’s creation hypothesis for which there is no conclusive supporting evidence.
RT5: “The moon, the faithful witness in the sky” (Psalm 89:37 NIV). These “witnesses” do not make mistakes, fabricate, or lie.
GW5: They are not persons, and thus not witnesses. Just a metaphor for an old hypothesis.
RT5: “Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what is made, so that people are without excuse” (Romans 1:20 NIV).
GW5: There is no good evidence that the world was created or that God exists. It is likely that the basic physical units of the universe are eternal. Note the First Law of Thermodynamics – energy-matter can be neither created nor destroyed. Also, as you know, there are several knock-down proofs against the existence of God. We all wish that God existed, but wishing doesn’t make it so, as you well know.